Didn't she also scream in that one where the alien was making them see things. Like it made her see boils all over her face or something. And then she turned it right back on him.
My theory on why Kes wasn't a more beloved character. Also opinion on Lien. post-"Voyager."
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
That was "Persistence Of Vision". My second favorite Voyager episode.
The alien was a Bothan.
yep that horrible screeching sound was in Persistance of Vision. My cat made that sound once...i accidentally stepped on her tail.
Maybe. It doesn't sound like something a humanoid creature could produce.
Certainly for a recurring, regular character. The lifespan thing is pretty interesting from a sci-fi perspective, but narratively it can't hold up.
As for attention/material with the writing, especially as Kes was early on in the show's run and VOY - in my humble opinion - didn't fully find itself until its third season (and the fourth is utterly rock solid), meaning all the characters were - at some point - given less attention or generic writing because that is just going to happen in shows from time to time until/unless narrative gold is struck.
For which I'm speaking to the choir but I enjoy tempting carpal tunnel on occasion... :-pYeah that was a pretty gruesome scene. Star Trek or at least Voyager didn't seem to do that much.
Think I might have screamed that way too..
Ha! That is hilarious to contemplate. I'm sure it would have been the inexplicable cover-up uniform accessory. Just like B'Elanna suddenly was in an "Engineering Jacket" without explanation, Seven would have taken to wearing an oversized "Astrometics Smock" for a season...
Certainly for a recurring, regular character. The lifespan thing is pretty interesting from a sci-fi perspective, but narratively it can't hold up.
As for attention/material with the writing, especially as Kes was early on in the show's run and VOY - in my humble opinion - didn't fully find itself until its third season (and the fourth is utterly rock solid), meaning all the characters were - at some point - given less attention or generic writing because that is just going to happen in shows from time to time until/unless narrative gold is struck.
I have to disagree here. I think that Voyager was excellent the first three seasons until it turned into The Seven Of Nine Show.
As for Kes, the lifespan did limitate the character but it could have been dealt with easily since a prolonging of the lifespan would have been possible, according to the episode "Cold Fire".
It took me five minutes to correct that in one of my stories and it took 30 seconds to wipe out the damage done to the character in that horrible season 6 episode. I expect the same and more from skilled professional writers.
As for the characters, Kes was never supposed to be a main character in the same way as Janeway.
When Voyager started, Janeway and Chakotay were supposed to be the main characters, like Picard and Riker in TNG. Paris, Tuvok and Torres were the "second row" characters while Kes, neelix, The Doctor and Kim were supposed to stand in the third row.
That changed in season 4 when Seven, The Doctor and Janeway became the main characters while Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok and Torres actually ended up in the third row with Neelix and Kim.
This is not really true, by your own admission you haven't seen much of the seasons Kes is not in, so this is another one of your theories that is not correct. There was a lovely breakdown of each episode and the featured character that was posted before and it clearly shows that there was a fairly even distribution among the characters.
I agree i think the short life span was interesting. In fact it was the only interesting and unique thing about kes. It wouldn't limit the character at all since the series was only 7 years long. But episodes about her aging could have been very well done and dramatic with a more talented actress.Certainly for a recurring, regular character. The lifespan thing is pretty interesting from a sci-fi perspective, but narratively it can't hold up.
As for attention/material with the writing, especially as Kes was early on in the show's run and VOY - in my humble opinion - didn't fully find itself until its third season (and the fourth is utterly rock solid), meaning all the characters were - at some point - given less attention or generic writing because that is just going to happen in shows from time to time until/unless narrative gold is struck.
I also agree with you that the show didnt1 reach it's stride until about season 4. I think the show got much better from that point forward.
I have actually watched seasons 4, 5 and 6 up to a certain episode near the end of that season plus "Endgame" even it was about 17 years ago. However, I do remember the over-focus on Seven, The Doctor and Janeway and how the other characters were shoved in the background.
Oh, that constant pecking on the character and the actress.................
However, I do realize and understand that a slow, outdrawn death for Kes could have been interesting and entertaining for those who dislike or even might hate the character. But since I've experienced that scenario with two family members, one slightly before I discovered Voyager and one recently, I don't find that kind of scenarios particularly entertaining, thank you.
^ Based on what we do see of the aging process in Before and After (and assuming this is typical for an Ocampan), it seems that she would not visibly age until the last year of her life, and even in that last year would be quite capable of working and such things until the last 2 weeks or so.
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Nobody is talking about a slow drawn out deathI have actually watched seasons 4, 5 and 6 up to a certain episode near the end of that season plus "Endgame" even it was about 17 years ago. However, I do remember the over-focus on Seven, The Doctor and Janeway and how the other characters were shoved in the background.
Oh, that constant pecking on the character and the actress.................
However, I do realize and understand that a slow, outdrawn death for Kes could have been interesting and entertaining for those who dislike or even might hate the character. But since I've experienced that scenario with two family members, one slightly before I discovered Voyager and one recently, I don't find that kind of scenarios particularly entertaining, thank you.
(and you're not the only one who has experienced loved ones passing)
In that episode it seemed like what kes was going through was natural for Ocompans. The memory loss she experienced explains her confusion in Fury
I've noticed that as well. I believe it's when she is telling them what is going on is right after Andrew is born and she says "six months from now the Dr. would try to extend her life with the bio-temporal chamber". She looks almost the same as she did in a "normal" time episode. When she has her 9th birthday, you can see she's starting to visibly age but still has her mind (other than the memories she's lost from living life in reverse). Andrew at six months looks like the human equivalent of maybe 12 or 13.
I disagree that Kes having a short lifespan is a drawback in fact I would call it strength in part because we have never seen that done on Trek before.
To me it gives you a chance in 7 years to explore the entire human condition on aging from youth to middle age to senior citizen. It gives the character a well defined arc though I got to admit i'm not so sure how much effort they would have done in doing that. It also means as she gets older you would proably have the crew start to search for ways to expand her life.
Jason
To me it gives you a chance in 7 years to explore the entire human condition on aging from youth to middle age to senior citizen. It gives the character a well defined arc though I got to admit i'm not so sure how much effort they would have done in doing that. It also means as she gets older you would proably have the crew start to search for ways to expand her life.
Jason
Oh, that constant pecking on the character and the actress.................
However, I do realize and understand that a slow, outdrawn death for Kes could have been interesting and entertaining for those who dislike or even might hate the character. But since I've experienced that scenario with two family members, one slightly before I discovered Voyager and one recently, I don't find that kind of scenarios particularly entertaining, thank you.
Yep. It's impossible to discuss Kes here - you get all mopey with the "'who, li'l ol' me?" shtick and the accusations of hatred and sinister motives. Quit clutching your pearls and engage with people on the facts - the canonical version of Kes we saw onscreen, not the re-imagined, re-written one you created in your head and your awful fanfiction.
I've suffered deaths in my immediate family too. Kes' lifespan has no impact on me - not least because the character understood it better than any of us. Or did you miss Before and After? Or was that 'Suspiria in disguise' as well? Kes, to me, is a positive affirmation of a simple truth of our existence - that our time is finite, and we should embrace it with the energy and enthusiasm that she did.
One final thing: I think it's particularly disappointing to invoke unknowable personal tragedy to shut down sensible debate. I'm sorry you felt the need to do that.
Completely agree. It was a unique thing for trek to have a short lifespan and it could have been good drama and character development to see her dealing with her aging and to see everyone else deal with it. Though i disagree about them looking for ways to slow her aging. I can see kes refusing any attempt as it is going against the natural course.
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