My Grievances of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

[Timewalker]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

If the new stuff that calls itself Star Trek were actually like Star Trek and wasn't so dumbed-down, I'd consider it more real. When they improve sufficiently, I'll cease to consider it "not-real".

But how will you even know?

I haven't seen it yet

I am basing my comments on the fact that I saw the 2009 movie and hated it. I've seen a freight train load of spoilers concerning STID, and absolutely none of it has given me cause to think this movie might be any better. I do plan to watch it and decide for sure.

If I feel it's not dumbed-down crap, if the story makes sense, if the characters (and acting) are better than last time, it will have improved. Maybe some day it'll improve enough that I'll stop complaining about it.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

If the new stuff that calls itself Star Trek were actually like Star Trek and wasn't so dumbed-down, I'd consider it more real. When they improve sufficiently, I'll cease to consider it "not-real".

But how will you even know?

I haven't seen it yet

I am basing my comments on the fact that I saw the 2009 movie and hated it. I've seen a freight train load of spoilers concerning STID, and absolutely none of it has given me cause to think this movie might be any better. I do plan to watch it and decide for sure.

If I feel it's not dumbed-down crap, if the story makes sense, if the characters (and acting) are better than last time, it will have improved. Maybe some day it'll improve enough that I'll stop complaining about it.

Sounds like you're judging a book, not by its cover, but by its Cliffs Notes.

If you read a synopsis of First Contact, the movie doesn't make a lick of sense (Time Travel AND Invasion? Space zombies AND Elves? Berlioz AND Roy Orbison? Other than Picard and Data, who are these other 24th century protagonists, and what's THEIR development?), but actually watching it turns it into a completely different animal. You may or may not like it and that's your prerogative, but either way it's a completely different experience than reading a couple paragraphs. And it's the same for many, many movies out there -- because they're meant to be experienced AS movies, not as little snippets that you pick up here and there and mash together piecemeal.

 

[Mycroft Maxwell]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Theres actually movies I like that had trailers that put me off. Oblivion, Dark Shadows, Kick-ass. All those had lousy trailers that made me think the movies would be dumb. Fortunatly I gave them a chance.

However, Star Trek Into Darkness, its no more exciting than the trailers.

 

[Timewalker]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

But how will you even know?

I am basing my comments on the fact that I saw the 2009 movie and hated it. I've seen a freight train load of spoilers concerning STID, and absolutely none of it has given me cause to think this movie might be any better. I do plan to watch it and decide for sure.

If I feel it's not dumbed-down crap, if the story makes sense, if the characters (and acting) are better than last time, it will have improved. Maybe some day it'll improve enough that I'll stop complaining about it.

Sounds like you're judging a book, not by its cover, but by its Cliffs Notes.

If you read a synopsis of First Contact, the movie doesn't make a lick of sense (Time Travel AND Invasion? Space zombies AND Elves? Berlioz AND Roy Orbison? Other than Picard and Data, who are these other 24th century protagonists, and what's THEIR development?), but actually watching it turns it into a completely different animal. You may or may not like it and that's your prerogative, but either way it's a completely different experience than reading a couple paragraphs. And it's the same for many, many movies out there -- because they're meant to be experienced AS movies, not as little snippets that you pick up here and there and mash together piecemeal.

FFS, I would assume that a synopsis of First Contact would use the proper terms. Borg are not "space zombies" and Vulcans are not "elves." As for the Roy Orbison reference, I do know he was a musician and I'm familiar with one or two of his songs, but that stuff that the movie version of Cochrane listens to is just so much noise to me.

There were things I liked about First Contact. There were things I absolutely loathed about First Contact, the major one being Zephram Cochrane himself. Considering that it's a continuing character study of Picard (and Data) and I liked the character of Lily, it wasn't a bad movie. It was certainly the best of the TNG movies.

People here seem to constantly overlook the fact that I HAVE seen the 2009 movie. I saw it and hated it. Not even Leonard Nimoy could save that pile of crap.

I've also stated that I intend to see STID. It's available "on demand" and so one of these days I'll sit down and watch it. But considering that it's almost impossible to post in the Trek areas of this forum and NOT see copious spoilers about the movie (they crop up everywhere, even in non-movie-specific threads), you should realize I already know quite a number of details about the movie and there's not a single one of those details that has impressed me.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it's going to take a hell of a lot to accomplish that. I honestly don't think Abrams et. al are up to the job. When it comes to Star Trek movies, I'm hard to please. The last ST movie that accomplished that was Star Trek IV.

And would you all please just get it through your heads that even though I consider the 2009 movie stupid, that is not the same as saying that people who like it are stupid. I rather suspect some of the production people think the viewers are stupid, but I'm not part of the production staff.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

The torpedoes were armed, that's how they were able to make them go off inside the Vengeance. They always had that capability.

We really don't know that for sure. They could have easily put explosives where the cryo-tubes were. Even if they still had weapons payload, my scenario still works out.

Nope. The torpedoes had active warheads. They weren't added. Remember Spock briefing McCoy on his plan:

Spock: Dr. McCoy, you inadvertently activated a torpedo, could you replicate the process?
Bones: Why the hell would I want to do that?
Spock: Can you or can you not?
Bones: Dammit, man. I'm a doctor, not a torpedo technician.
Spock: The fact that you're doctor is precisely why I need you to listen very carefully.

Verdict: Khan stuffed his people inside torpedoes with live warheads.

 

[SeerSGB]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

The torpedoes were armed, that's how they were able to make them go off inside the Vengeance. They always had that capability.

We really don't know that for sure. They could have easily put explosives where the cryo-tubes were. Even if they still had weapons payload, my scenario still works out.

Nope. The torpedoes had active warheads. They weren't added. Remember Spock briefing McCoy on his plan:

Spock: Dr. McCoy, you inadvertently activated a torpedo, could you replicate the process?
Bones: Why the hell would I want to do that?
Spock: Can you or can you not?
Bones: Dammit, man. I'm a doctor, not a torpedo technician.
Spock: The fact that you're doctor is precisely why I need you to listen very carefully.

Verdict: Khan stuffed his people inside torpedoes with live warheads.

Or the warheads were added back after Khan rabbited and Marcus was discovered what he did.

 

[Commishsleer]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

The torpedoes were armed, that's how they were able to make them go off inside the Vengeance. They always had that capability.

We really don't know that for sure. They could have easily put explosives where the cryo-tubes were. Even if they still had weapons payload, my scenario still works out.

Nope. The torpedoes had active warheads. They weren't added. Remember Spock briefing McCoy on his plan:

Spock: Dr. McCoy, you inadvertently activated a torpedo, could you replicate the process?
Bones: Why the hell would I want to do that?
Spock: Can you or can you not?
Bones: Dammit, man. I'm a doctor, not a torpedo technician.
Spock: The fact that you're doctor is precisely why I need you to listen very carefully.

Verdict: Khan stuffed his people inside torpedoes with live warheads.

I'm not sure that he meant activate in as 'to explode'. I thought he meant 'to open' (and reveal its contents) now that it has people (in cryo-tubes) inside. Otherwise why would Spock ask McCoy how to activate the tubes - he doesn't want them to explode inside The Enterprise.
If Spock knows the torpedoes have live warheads and will presumably explode on impact why not just tell Khan he'll launch them if he doesn't beam over Kirk (and Scotty and Marcus)

 

[Set Harth]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Carol: Unfortunately for us, the warheads on these weapons are live.

 

[BillJ]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Carol: Unfortunately for us, the warheads on these weapons are live.

If they can't scan the innards of the torpedo, how would she know? She's likely guessing that they are live.

 

[Set Harth]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

All that was said was that the "fuel compartment" containing the cryotube was shielded, not the whole torpedo. The warheads are presumably not in the shielded section.

 

[Commishsleer]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

If the new stuff that calls itself Star Trek were actually like Star Trek and wasn't so dumbed-down, I'd consider it more real. When they improve sufficiently, I'll cease to consider it "not-real".

But how will you even know?

I haven't seen it yet

I am basing my comments on the fact that I saw the 2009 movie and hated it. I've seen a freight train load of spoilers concerning STID, and absolutely none of it has given me cause to think this movie might be any better. I do plan to watch it and decide for sure.

If I feel it's not dumbed-down crap, if the story makes sense, if the characters (and acting) are better than last time, it will have improved. Maybe some day it'll improve enough that I'll stop complaining about it.

It doesn't matter how much you've read about it, you've got to see it yourself to judge or its not your opinion.

I'm being forced to watch FF6 (1/3 so far) and its turning out as I expected but I can't really comment until I see the whole thing.

 

[Timewalker]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

It's a valid opinion if I see a picture of an actress in her underwear (apparently that's Carol Marcus?) and my first reaction is that she needs to eat a sandwich (seriously, she looks like a toothpick).

I don't need to see the movie to have a negative reaction to a picture.

The story is a different matter. I should see the movie before saying that it's 100% crap. It might only be 99% crap. Who knows - maybe I'll find that elusive 1% (or more).

But I HAVE seen the 2009 movie, and I stand by my opinions of it.

 

[BillJ]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

It's a valid opinion if I see a picture of an actress in her underwear (apparently that's Carol Marcus?) and my first reaction is that she needs to eat a sandwich (seriously, she looks like a toothpick).

Are Americans now so use to only seeing other fat Americans (yes, I'm a fat American) that we no longer know what a healthy body looks like?

 

[SeerSGB]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

It's a valid opinion if I see a picture of an actress in her underwear (apparently that's Carol Marcus?) and my first reaction is that she needs to eat a sandwich (seriously, she looks like a toothpick).

Are Americans now so use to only seeing other fat Americans (yes, I'm a fat American) that we no longer know what a healthy body looks like?

Fellow Fat-American, and gotta agree with you on that one. There's nothing unhealthy or anorexic looking about Alice Eve. The comment strikes me as being strictly mean spirited and offensive.

Edit To Add: Just so people don't think I'm a JJ cheerleader or cause this is over STID, the reason comments like that are offensive to me is 1) I was a healthy weight when I was younger and heard that "eat a sandwich" / "put some meat on them bones" bullshit nearly daily; I was healthy just not what was "normal". Now that I've overweight, I get the "put the sandwich down" and "Push away from the table" shit from the same people that bitched about my weight when I was a healthy weight 2) My youngest is a healthy, average weight, already at 4 years old we're getting this bullshit from people about him needing to put on more weight to be "normal sized". Whether you think it's a joke or not, it's fucking cruel to say to or about someone, IMO.

 

[Jerikka Dawn]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

I've also stated that I intend to see STID. It's available "on demand" and so one of these days I'll sit down and watch it.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it's going to take a hell of a lot to accomplish that. I honestly don't think Abrams et. al are up to the job. When it comes to Star Trek movies, I'm hard to please. The last ST movie that accomplished that was Star Trek IV.

Is this a serious post? You are flat out deciding to put off watching the movie and are making judgements about it, claiming you're willing to be proven wrong, yet actively refusing to watch it. Yes, "some day' you'll watch it. How about today since, today is the day you're posting opinions about it?

 

[Mycroft Maxwell]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

I watched it... was good up to the Qo'nos part, then everything seemed to go down the toilet.

Also the whole outrageous speed, ubertech, total disreguard for modern physics. Hell its not even a star trek movie, its an action movie with star trek names.

 

[SeerSGB]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

I watched it... was good up to the Qo'nos part, then everything seemed to go down the toilet.

Also the whole outrageous speed, ubertech, total disreguard for modern physics. Hell its not even a star trek movie, its an action movie with star trek names.

Do you have the same complaint about the older movies and episodes that feature that same tech? In terms of tech, there's nothing in STID that hasn't been in Trek before. As for them being action movies: exception of 2 or 3 movies, they're all action movies with very light stories.

As much as I enjoy STID, I will say I think it was a misstep to reveal John Harrison to really be Khan. Not because "OMG REHASH!!!! RIP OFF!!!!", but because it was over too soon. Khan could have made two movies, easily.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Do you have the same complaint about the older movies and episodes that feature that same tech? In terms of tech, there's nothing in STID that hasn't been in Trek before.

Dunno about you, but the filmmakers seem to have a whole different idea of what warp speed is. It more or less resembles the Star Wars lightspeed where in that universe characters could easily escape their own galaxy. Having the Enterprise go from Kronos to Earth in a matter of seconds is some pretty serious speed right there. The odd thing is that they didn't intentionally go out of warp, they were broken out of it by the Vengeance firing at them. So they were gonna go further? Doesn't make much sense there.

The only time Trek ever showed starships going at such great speeds were in certain circumstances like with Nomad, the Kelvans, the Traveler, The Caretaker, slipstream drive, ect.

 

[BillJ]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

The only time Trek ever showed starships going at such great speeds were in certain circumstances like with Nomad, the Kelvans, the Traveler, The Caretaker, slipstream drive, ect.

In TOS, the Enterprise was able to cover 990+ light years in a little over 11.5 solar hours at warp 8.4 ("That Which Survives").

I also think it maybe safe to assume that Starfleet's propulsion research took a different path as the wall display in Admiral Marcus' office shows a "transwarp" network.

 

[SeerSGB]

Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Do you have the same complaint about the older movies and episodes that feature that same tech? In terms of tech, there's nothing in STID that hasn't been in Trek before.

Dunno about you, but the filmmakers seem to have a whole different idea of what warp speed is. It more or less resembles the Star Wars lightspeed where in that universe characters could easily escape their own galaxy. Having the Enterprise go from Kronos to Earth in a matter of seconds is some pretty serious speed right there. The odd thing is that they didn't intentionally go out of warp, they were broken out of it by the Vengeance firing at them. So they were gonna go further? Doesn't make much sense there.

The only time Trek ever showed starships going at such great speeds were in certain circumstances like with Nomad, the Kelvans, the Traveler, The Caretaker, slipstream drive, ect.

Star Trek V: Neutral Zone to the galactic center in less than a day. Star Trek VI: Earth to the Neutral Zone in a few hours. Enterprise: Earth to Qo'nos in four days, despite being older and slower engines.

The only constant speed in ST is the speed of plot.

The only time Trek ever showed starships going at such great speeds were in certain circumstances like with Nomad, the Kelvans, the Traveler, The Caretaker, slipstream drive, ect.

In TOS, the Enterprise was able to cover 990+ light years in a little over 11.5 solar hours at warp 8.4 ("That Which Survives").

I also think it maybe safe to assume that Starfleet's propulsion research took a different path as the wall display in Admiral Marcus' office shows a "transwarp" network.

Makes sense. Doesn't even have to be because of the Kelvin. We know there's a shite tone of Borg junk left over on Earth in the past after First Contact, maybe besides Borg drones Starfleet uncovered propulsion data as well.