Moving up in rank

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by herofan, Apr 24, 2021.

  1. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    Didn't they like the character, or the actor ? (I mean, why create a non-antagonist character you don't like and then deny him a reasonable promotion?)
     
  2. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Red Shirt

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    Honestly, if I was Garret Wang, I wouldn't give two shits if my character was promoted, as long as they kept me on the show.
     
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  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Probably both, though Braga has admitted to hating the character. In fact, the whole reason Harry's storyline in The Killing Game had him working for the Hirogen outside of the holodeck was because Braga actually tried to avoid including the character in the episode until someone at UPN got after him over it. Realizing the WWII holodeck story was complete enough that Harry couldn't be included in, the story of the Hirogen forcing Harry to work for them outside the holodeck.
     
  4. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Red Shirt

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    I can't say I blame them, I don't like his character either, IMO the less of him the better.
     
  5. JamesRye

    JamesRye Commander Red Shirt

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    I watched the Disease last night. Poor Garrett Wang was well out of his depth. The guy just isn't a good actor and is just a one note character. You only have to look at the guys career after Trek. He seems like a nice enough fellow though - I've been listening to the Delta Flyers Podcast.
     
  6. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Red Shirt

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    Indeed, he's lucky he got seven seasons on this show at all!!! Think of Lieutenant Carey that disappeared for five seasons only to be killed in his first reappearance on season 7!!!
     
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  7. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    I honestly would have been fine with it if they'd terminated him from the show, lethally or not. His character was basically like a redshirt, only more durable. I would also have been fine if they'd kept him in the background. Uhura, Sulu, Crusher, LaForge, Chakotay, Jake, Hoshi, Travis... all of the Treks had characters who were kind of diverted to the background. My only issue is that they kept him at ensign for 7 years, because they thought we were too stupid to notice. It's bad form to insult your audience.
     
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  8. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've met Garrett numerous times. He is a very pleasant guy and enjoys being with the fans. I've even played against him at DragonCon in a trivia contest... the winner got Lt. pips.

    You can guess who won...

    :biggrin:
     
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  9. Markonian

    Markonian Commodore Commodore

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    So, what would (in-universe) be a good rank structure aboard Voyager?

    Let’s agree that Kim is LTJG by 2373/74.
    Kes wears science blue and is an un-ranked crewman/crewperson. (Like she did in the Star Trek: Trexels video game).
    Other NCOs wear the O’Brien-style insignia from DS9.
    The Doctor has been granted an NCO rank and insignia, given that he serves as actual senior staff full time.
    Additionally, Voyager hires medical personnel on a temp/contract basis, with the caveat that they might suddenly be whisked to Earth if Voyager got the chance to return home instantly. Imagine a Talaxian doctor or nurse, for instance.

    Tuvok still becomes LTCDR.
    The ex-Maquis that are doing well receive official pips.

    By 2376/77, Seven of Nine wears science blue, unranked, over her dermal sheath suit.
    Torres earns her LTCDR.
    Kim becomes LTCDR.
    Chell is part-time chef, apprentice to Neelix, who runs the nursery/school for the ship’s ten or so children. Stable partnerships had been encouraged to raise a replacement crew on the initially 60-year, then 30-year journey.

    By the time of Endgame (2404), the Doctor would be commander.

    Side note, in the non-canon VOY novels set after the ship’s return home, almost everyone is promoted two steps in rank to make up for the time in the Delta Quadrant, except Tuvok (1 promotion), Janeway (vice admiral) and Doctor (gets nuttin’).
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
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  10. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wang really cares about the show, though...In interviews he has proven to be very knowledgeable about Trek, and I’m not referring to Voyager alone.

    Cool ideas! I think they would do better training new medical personnel themselves, as alien doctors would be unfamiliar with human physiology, but it’s still a cool idea. On the other hand Trek doctors never have problems healing aliens (unless they are drunk), so my point is kinda moot.

    And yes, on a decades long journey people are going to pair up and procreate, by the end of the seasons there should have been several stable couples and several children up to 6 years old or so.
     
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  11. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Ouch. Poor guy can't catch a break. But congratulations, ah... lieutenant.

    I assume you meant "structure". And I think you got it right. Normally three ranks for Harry would be on the high side for 6 years, but he was doing at least JG level work for most of that time, so I'll take it.

    While I doubt the Doctor would command the ship outside of ECH mode, I think that since he is considered sentient, it would be well within reason for Janeway to give him a field commission. In other words, he would probably have a ○○● on his collar.

    Neelix's status would depend on if Voyager encountered a "Year of Hell" situation. When she does, he seems to wind up in a yellow uniform. When not, hecwears his customary loud suits (which the kids would love, the way kids of today enjoy Ms. Frizzle's outlandish garb in the Magic School Bus stories). If Voyager had a long enough journey, I think Tuvok would be tapped to educate the teens. He's calm, patient, knowledgeable, and knows when not to take crap from people.
     
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  12. Markonian

    Markonian Commodore Commodore

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    Thanks for catching the typo!

    Tuvok was involved in teaching the Borglets, and by the end of VOY oversaw Icheb’s Starfleet Academy (pre-)training, so him looking after the teens makes perfect sense.
     
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  13. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    I can imagine Janeway agonizing over whether to lead from the front by becoming a parent herself, or sticking to her guns and abstaining from any relationship.

    She'd probably choose the latter, but maybe not... I can imagine little Phoebe Kes Janeway, with her mom's golden hair and fiercely independent nature, dominating the kindergarten class.
     
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  14. Markonian

    Markonian Commodore Commodore

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    She could always go back and collect her and Paris’s children…
     
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  15. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Assuming they weren't gobbled up by some local equivalent of an anaconda the moment their parents were taken. :(

    One does wonder if the EMH's de-salamanderization technique would work on those three, given that they never were human to begin with.
     
  16. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    .

    That's reasonable, based on other known examples it takes between 1 and 6 years, with an average of 3.

    Kes should probably start as a "crewman", but by the time she's essentially a nurse or at least "corpsman" she should be an NCO. Some greater variety of NCO insignia would be nice. In fact, now I think about it, one possible reason for the Carey vs Torres debate in this setting could be that any experienced commissioned engineers were killed in the transit and he was the "Chief of Engineering" who Janeway was going to promote from (Senior) Chief to Lieutenant.

    IMO, you really have to make The Doctor a commissioned officer if you're going to change it, otherwise you're invalidating your own premise as MDs are never NCOs.

    Sure.

    I'd expect most of them to be made NCOs rather than officers, but I don't object in principle.

    Yes to "science blue", similar to The Doctor, I think making her a Lieutenant makes more sense, and roughly corresponds to her position in the "chain of command" as she (mostly) recognises Janeway, Chakotay and Tuvok's authority, but mostly puts herself above the lieutenants.

    I'd say Torres to LCDR is possible, we have examples of talented officers (LaForge, Worf) making it from LTJG to LCDR in that sort of time, but the only example AFAIK of someone making it from ENS to LCDR that quickly is Will Riker, whose career appears to have been to a degree accelerated by politics and backhand deals arising from his silence over the "Pegasus Incident" and his father's contacts, as his time to LCDR (~ 4 years) is well outside the averages suggested by Data in Datalore and roughly half the time of others.

    On the other hand, there's enough variation in the datapoints for LT that I wouldn't object to him getting his second silver pip.

    Seems reasonable.

    .

    That would make sense if we're making him a Lieutenant (or JG) initially, but not if we're starting him at CPO in the same role.

    Actually, it was mostly the senior staff were promoted, plus a couple of junior staff who were moved up to replace departing senior staff.

    Janeway was promoted to Vice Admiral [three grades]
    Chakotay was initially promoted to (substantive) Commander, then later Captain [two grades].
    Tuvok was promoted to Commander [one grade].
    Paris was promoted to LCDR [two grades].
    Torres was promoted to LCDR [two grades].
    Kim was promoted to LT [two grades] <-- replaced Tuvok as Chief Tactical Officer and Second Officer.
    Wildman was promoted to LT, and then LCDR on her next assignment [three grades].
    Vorik was promoted to LT [two grades] <-- replaced Torres as Voyager's ChEng.
     
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  17. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Red Shirt

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    Who got the highest rank ever seen on screen? (not just talked about)

    Isn't it, Janeway? I think it is.
     
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Her or Kirk. We don't know what level of admiral he was. Though Riker was a four-star admiral in "All Good Things".
     
  19. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Of any major character?
    * Picard was a full four-pip Admiral. Seen onscreen in flashbacks on Picard.
    * McCoy was also a (retired) Admiral, but we don't know what grade.
    * Jonathan Archer was presumably a full Admiral when he retired as Chief of Staff (per an okudagram), but it's possible that he was only a Vice Admiral like his predecessor in the position, Maxwell Forrest.
    * Georgiou wore a full Admiral's uniform in "People of Earth", but she was apparently self-promoting herself and lying, as she was never addressed or referred to as Admiral again.
    * In non-canon, Chekov held the rank of "Grand Admiral", presumably a six-star Admiral rank, in one of the Shatnerverse novels. This is the highest rank ever achieved by any main character in non-canon.
     
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  20. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kirk was a Rear Admiral, in both The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan, per background notes.
     
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