Moving up in rank

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by herofan, Apr 24, 2021.

  1. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Unless he reassessed his life once back in the AQ. I'd bet good money some of them resigned.
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, that's an easy one. Janeway feels she can't promote anybody because she can't get the signatures of her superiors.

    Sure, she can do a punitive demotion she then reverses with a corresponding promotion after time served. She did that with Tom Paris (but never completely pardoned him, that is, never restored his initial senior Lieutenant rank for which she had the signatures and all). She apparently did that with Tuvok, too: after "Prime Factors", he'd be busted down to Lieutenant, and his collar appropriately lightened, and then he'd finally get the pardon in "Revulsion".

    But rewarding somebody with an actual promotion that is not a mere pardon? She just won't do it, not even with signatures sent across Project Pathfinder. Instead, she hands out congratulations and just possibly also tinfoil medals.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    That or he just gets promoted when he is not under Janeway's command. This can be a timeline where he got a different assignment, or where Janeway expired, or after Voyager made it home. This has led to the fan theory that she secretly has it in for him. As Tosk previously implied in this topic.
     
  4. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is kind of where my head is at too. Not just shoreside, but project or division type leaders
    So yeah... A lot of those examples are like head of Starfleet security, Project Pathfinder etc... Which makes sense that Starfleet would have any number of operational departments in their base of operations

    It just seems to me like they don't offer anything in ship duties that get granted higher than LCDR ranks, & that's one explanation for Data & even Geordi & Worf getting rank locked there

    I suppose that since there's science based vessels that run on mostly blue shirts, there might also be yellow shirt equivalents, where officers are running departments rooted in operations or security tasks that might present the opportunity for a CMDR rank

    To me, doesn't the title itself kind of imply the holder ought to be in command of something? That's why Beverly's rank makes sense... Troi's on the other hand :shrug:
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
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  5. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    in fact this might have been a good idea for lower decks, since the Cerritos is supposed to be an engineering ship.
     
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  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Unless you look at the 22nd and 23rd centuries where Trip, Kelby and Reno did wear the engineering color, held the rank of full Commander and had ship-board assignments. Scotty and Uhura also wore red in TOS and in the movies were Commanders with shipboard assignments, doing the exact same thing they did during the TV series. Scotty even moved onto Captain.
    Not really, there are plenty of officers in todays navies who hold the rank Commander who aren't command officers. And in Star Trek, plenty of Starfleet officers likewise are Commanders but not in command of anything. Hell, Admiral's aides are almost always Commanders and they basically just secretaries.
     
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  7. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    In TNG it's implied the process is just Riker and Troi sitting down and discussing everyone's merit once a year.
     
  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    It's a rank, not a job description. An officer can command something at any rank. JFK commanded the PT 109 as a Lt (jg)
     
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  9. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    i believe you are referring to the crew evaluations seen in Man of the People. It’s not said it is for eventual promotion, though, as far as we know it’s just an evaluation.
     
  10. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There are crew evaluations being done at the beginning of Lower Decks too, and Riker jokes about just promoting everyone so that they don't have to do it. Lavelle gets promoted at the end of the episode.
     
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  11. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Who needs a real ensign to steer a ship?

    In real naval and merchant ships the steering is done by enlisted crew, not by officers.
     
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  12. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Commodore Commodore

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    What happens if they merged Enlisted & Officers in StarFleet and the concept of "Enlisted Crew Members" is a obsolete concept that was being phased out?
     
  13. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Commodore Commodore

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    For me, for every StarShip, StarBase, or Terestrial Base

    There would need to be billets for:
    1iC | CO(Commanding Officer) | Skipper of Ship/Base
    2iC | XO (Executive Officer) | 1st Officer/Mate
    3iC | 2O(Secondary Officer) | 2nd Officer/Mate

    Then there are Department Heads which should generally be about Commander in Rank.
    Departments:
    Chief of Engineering
    Chief of Security
    Chief of Tactical
    Chief of Medical
    Chief of Science
    Chief of Operations
    etc.

    There can be Dozens of Chief of ___ Department based on how many Departments you plan on fielding on your StarShip, StarBase, Terestrial Base.

    Every Chief would have their own Departmental "1st Officer/XO" and would be one rank below Commander.
    If I had a choice, I'd replace the Lieutenant Comander with the "Major" rank.

    Then each Section within each Department would have a "Liutenant" as their Section leader.

    Remember every Section or Shift has to go in/out of rotation when not in Combat situations.

    You can't have one group of people operate at their posts 24/7, ergo each Section/Shift will rotate in and out to do the work necessary to keep the place running.

    After that, there's more people down the ranks within each department.
     
  14. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    They probably need more people to crew their ships and starbases than Starfleet Avademy will hold. Hence, the need for enlisted crew.
     
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  15. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I suspect the entire thing is beyond all human comprehension.
     
  16. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If all else fails someone could try and sleep their way up the promotion ladder.
     
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  17. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Or kill your superior, if you're on a Klingon ship.
     
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  18. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    So... she's perfectly happy restoring Tom and Chakotay's Starfleet commissions to status quo ante. And, giving an academy dropout a commission of lieutenant. And doling out multiple field demotions as punishment. But, she's not willing to field promote an excellent officer to the rank he would normally be at after three years. In other words, she denies the carrot while freely pummeling her subordinates with the stick.

    That's an explanation, I admit... but it honestly doesn't seem very rational.
     
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  19. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    IMO, the concept of two discrete "enlisted" and "officer" communities is obselete to a degree. The limited evidence suggests that there are at least two entry points -- direct entry as a "specialist" after a few months training with the option to take a degree later to "upgrade" to the "officer grades"; graduate entry after taking a 4-5yr degree course (and field training) baed purely on individual academic and psychological standards which allows "leap-froging" to the "officer grades" after some field training. In terms of RW examples, this system would be more akin to law enforcement and "ranked" federal agencies rather than military.
     
  20. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

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    In one of the games, you see an example of what we call in our armed services a "mustang" officer: he began as a crewman. After serving for some years, he attended Academy and gained a commission as an ensign, and had reached lieutenant rank by the time the game took place.