Moving up in rank

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by herofan, Apr 24, 2021.

  1. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Location:
    London
    You don't need to be in a relationship to be a parent even in the 21st century. IVF should be as common as drinking water in the Trek universe for singular folks
     
    Markonian likes this.
  2. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    True, but "father of captain's child" would have some of the same entanglements as "captain's significant other". Not sure Janeway would want to deal with that.
     
  3. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Location:
    London
    Not if she chose a Delta quadrant sperm bank lol
     
  4. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Well, it still wasn't a hundred percent reliable (e.g. Seska).
     
  5. Markonian

    Markonian Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Location:
    Derbyshire, UK
    Thanks, those are all great points!
    The Doctor could then start out as LTJG, to compromise between being an MD and not attending Starfleet Academy.

    On a different note, I remember Chakotay telling Janeway that Ransom would have to become her first officer if she decided to abandon Equinox (before the outcome in Part 2). Presumably, Rudy would've accepted a rank reduction to commander (three full pips), conveniently slotting him between Janeway and Chakotay. I could imagine that his personal arc would last a season or so, ending in a belated redemption-equals-death, with Chakotay then switching from provisional LTCMDR to official, full CMDR.
     
  6. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    If Voyager were more serialized, I could see that happening... the two ships sail side by side for a time, and the horrible truth of Equinox's actions slowly comes to light as the alien attacks continue. Finally, Janeway makes the decision to abandon the Equinox to be destroyed, leaving holographic representations of the crew (capable of fooling the aliens) behind. But something goes wrong, and Ransom has to go down with the ship. Ranks change about as you indicated.
     
    Markonian and Timo like this.
  7. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Given that the only contemporary first tour medical officer that we have for the period is Julian Bashir, who was a LT-JG for the first three seasons, then (at least in TrekLit) was made LTCDR about four years later, and full CMDR five years later then IMO the start point is certainly legit.


    That's logical, however I skimmed both the Chakoteya transcript of the aired episode and the Star Trek Minuate copy of the script and neither seem to have that conversation.

    So I'm wondering where you remember it from?
     
    Markonian and Timo like this.
  8. Markonian

    Markonian Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Location:
    Derbyshire, UK
    I checked the Memory Alpha listing and Chakoteya and also cannot find the convo. As I remember it, Janeway and Chakotay are having a private conversation. It's about potentially abandoning Equinox. Chakotay tells Janeway that she would have to take Ransom as officer. A little bit bewildered, Janeway replies she hadn't considered that. It's clarified that she doesn't like the idea because she's come to trust Chakotay and rely on his counsel as first officer.

    I'll rewatch the ep soon. I've read the novelization, too, but I believe I remember seeing the scene.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Sometimes your mind plays tricks on you. I distinctly remembered that in some fifth season episode, probably "Timeless", Harry had advanced all the way to Commander before the timeline got wiped. But, rewatching verified that we never see what rank he was in that episode.
     
    Markonian likes this.
  10. Markonian

    Markonian Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Location:
    Derbyshire, UK
    I found the scene in the novelization. It appears I visualized too well!

    "Janeway felt her stomach tense. “I’ve never usurped another captain’s command before. Oh, it’s one thing to have the authority or even the tactical advantage. It’s something else to tell a captain with a viable ship that it’s time to dump it. How long before someone has to tell me that?” “There’s another problem, too.” Chakotay stretched his shoulders against the chair back and, despite the time crunch, actually crossed his legs. “Ransom is senior to me by twenty-two months. By the book, the minute we cut loose the Equinox, you have a new first officer." - Carey, Diane. Equinox: Star Trek Voyager Season Six . Pocket Books/Star Trek. Kindle-Version.
     
  11. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Well once they the writers realised they hadn't killed off Carey they had to bring him back to correct this grievous oversight and kill him off.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  12. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    That would suck, all right. Passed over for the academy dropout who slugged you, ignored for six years, unceremoniously snuffed within a few weeks of home, and immediately forgotten.
     
  13. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Someone said that the writers must have thought that he was dead for five seasons because the only times we saw him was in flashbacks. Then someone must have said "Hey, I've just realized, Carey's not dead!!! Incredible!"
     
  14. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Except, why would they care about such details if they didn't about Harry still being an ensign after 7 years despite fine service, the infinite supply of shuttles and torpedoes, Voyager looking brandnew every episode and squeaky-clean even if the previous episode saw its near total destruction (* ok, with a few exceptions), etc? (Not trying to revive any topic here that's been beaten to death far too many times already, just wondering why if they didn't care for those types of fallacies and discontinuities, why would they suddenly care about Carey not actually having died on screen 5 years before?)
     
  15. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Not to mention that "Ocampa females can only have one child" thing. In addition to lessons in mathematics (38 torpedoes available minus 85 torpedoes fired equals NOT POSSIBLE) and military protocol (qualifications for making lieutenant JG: 2 years of competent service as ensign), they need a lesson in biology (each woman must produce, on average, two children who live to reproduce just to MAINTAIN a population; in practice this is more like 2.5 to allow for infertility and childhood mishaps).

    Where DID they find those guys?! I'd say a second-rate fanfiction site, but the Internet wasn't as much of a thing in 1994.
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    The "Ocampa females can only have one child" thing is as much in the eye of the audience as it is in the typing fingers of the writer. Or, probably, more in the former.

    What the episode establishes is that in order to have kids, the female must respond to the call of this eloqium, and that if she doesn't, that's the end of it. What it never establishes is what happens if she does. So you either choose to be a child-rearer, or then you choose against it. If the former, many happy birthing events to you, supposedly...

    It's virginity in reverse, is all, in the not particularly misguided mind of the writer. If you choose not to lose it that one time, you will go childless for life. Intuitive, intriguing - and fine writing, really.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Interesting theory. If it were the case, they should have been more specific.
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    I really don't see why.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Then we're going to have to agree to disagree. Because I'm of the mind that they should have explained how Ocampa women can bear multiple offspring. They should have explained why Voyager had 85 torpedoes instead of 38. And they shouldn't have even tried to explain why Harry was an ensign for 7 years because there WAS no rational explanation; they should have just stuck a hollow pip on his collar and been done with it. Given how much Voyager's writers probably got paid, it's not too much to ask that they be at least moderately competent.
     
  20. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Sunny California