Moments on TNG that make you cringe.

[Alexander Corrino]

Yep. It's one thing to watch, I don't know, Magnum PI (the original version). You know it's sexist and chauvinistic because it's a perfect representation of its time (but I loved an episode where he meets an old female friend from college and, well, THEY REMAIN FRIENDS! Without even an ounce of sexual tension and are perfectly happy to be "just friends ". For the 80s it was revolutionary!).

But TNG? Where the characters repeated about 3 times per episode how they had evolved and discrimination was a thing of the past? I mean, they basically bullied three poor 20th century guys by telling them over and over what bad, unevolved people they were in one episode (Which I found in bad taste. I wouldn't tell someone from the 17th century that their views are out of date). It was hypocritical to say the least.

Yeah, same. I mean I do cringe at the way they treated Steven Carrington's homosexuality on Dynasty but at the same time I know it was a product of its time... and the show at least HAD a gay character. Which is what TNG can't say about itself despite being all about humanity having "evolved" into something "better".

And OMG yes I also hate how they treat the people from the past in "The Neutral Zone". Especially the way Jean-Luc treats them. Like as if they're neanderthals and a complete nuisance instead of three traumatized people who have just woken up in a future they know nothing about because nobody tells them anything. I know it's an emergency situation with the Romulans but, seriously? Offenhouse HAS a point when he asks why everyone can just use the comm panels without an executive key. It IS a security risk? And Jean-Luc's answer that they don't NEED any executive keys because everyone is super responsible and refrains from using the comm panels unless it's necessary (with the undertone of 'we have evolved beyond that', of course)...

 

[Oddish]

And OMG yes I also hate how they treat the people from the past in "The Neutral Zone". Especially the way Jean-Luc treats them.

Picard was just plain being an hole in this episode. Maybe not as bad as in "Homeward", but still. He was faced with a historical find far more amazing than mere artifacts, and all he seemed to have to say was basically "you should've let them all die".

Offenhouse HAS a point when he asks why everyone can just use the comm panels without an executive key. It IS a security risk? And Jean-Luc's answer that they don't NEED any executive keys because everyone is super responsible and refrains from using the comm panels unless it's necessary (with the undertone of 'we have evolved beyond that', of course)...

If someone had merely told them "please don't use the comms except for ship's business", they probably would have listened. And ANY passenger on the Enterprise would have used them unless instructed not to. Again, Picard was being a major prick.

 

[ED-209]

Uncomfortable reminder of a part of himself he’d rather wasn’t there.

 

[Skipper]

I always hear "it was the first draft, there was a writers' strike etc". But the fact remains that someone wrote this story thinking it was a good idea.

 

[Farscape One]

I always hear "it was the first draft, there was a writers' strike etc". But the fact remains that someone wrote this story thinking it was a good idea.

In fairness, none of the best episodes in the franchise were ready to shoot after their first draft.

"Yesterday's Enterprise", for example, went through so many drafts and had so many people working on it that the writing credits for the teleplay were maxed out. (Four people were listed, and at least 1 or 2 others worked on it uncredited.)

Or "IN THE PALE MOONLIGHT"... that wasn't even originally going to center on Sisko and Garak. It was supposed to be a Jake story.

My point is that I can't call 'only a first draft' or 'WGA strike' just excuses. Those are pretty valid reasons.

 

[FredH]

Yeah, same. I mean I do cringe at the way they treated Steven Carrington's homosexuality on Dynasty but at the same time I know it was a product of its time... and the show at least HAD a gay character. Which is what TNG can't say about itself despite being all about humanity having "evolved" into something "better".

And OMG yes I also hate how they treat the people from the past in "The Neutral Zone". Especially the way Jean-Luc treats them. Like as if they're neanderthals and a complete nuisance instead of three traumatized people who have just woken up in a future they know nothing about because nobody tells them anything. I know it's an emergency situation with the Romulans but, seriously? Offenhouse HAS a point when he asks why everyone can just use the comm panels without an executive key. It IS a security risk? And Jean-Luc's answer that they don't NEED any executive keys because everyone is super responsible and refrains from using the comm panels unless it's necessary (with the undertone of 'we have evolved beyond that', of course)...

Fact is, whatever his good qualities, Picard has always been a snob. We see this repeatedly in TNG, and we do again in Picard. In-universe, the whole “humanity-has-evolved” thing doesn’t really seem to come from people in general, it comes from Picard himself proclaiming it — which is why Lily Sloane calling it out as bullshit comes as a breath of fresh air. Picard is still essentially a good man, but his character flaw is consistent over the decades.

 

[Skipper]

In fairness, none of the best episodes in the franchise were ready to shoot after their first draft.

"Yesterday's Enterprise", for example, went through so many drafts and had so many people working on it that the writing credits for the teleplay were maxed out. (Four people were listed, and at least 1 or 2 others worked on it uncredited.)

Or "IN THE PALE MOONLIGHT"... that wasn't even originally going to center on Sisko and Garak. It was supposed to be a Jake story.

My point is that I can't call 'only a first draft' or 'WGA strike' just excuses. Those are pretty valid reasons.

Well, but it doesn't mean that the first drafts of these stories would have been bad stories per se. For all we know, without reading them, they would have been perfectly acceptable episodes.

 

[aquova]

I was doing a rewatch of the series a while back, and I think they draw attention to Picard's "discomfort" with children at least once in the first 10 episodes or so. It's a very weird character trait by itself, but the fact they kept bringing it up is one of the weirdest choices the show made.

 

[at Quark's]

^ I know people that are ill at ease with children in real life.

I suppose those show makers did so too, and wanted that trait to be part of Picards character.

We do see him easing up and becoming better with children over the years, though.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I was doing a rewatch of the series a while back, and I think they draw attention to Picard's "discomfort" with children at least once in the first 10 episodes or so. It's a very weird character trait by itself, but the fact they kept bringing it up is one of the weirdest choices the show made.

It's not weird to not like kids. I fucking hate them.

Plus, he'd spent years before the Enterprise working on a ship with no kids.

It's totally understandable. It allows us to read Picard as a bit of a 'stiff', stoic character who puts professionalism before family (which is what he is pretty much up to the present day).

 

[Skipper]

I was doing a rewatch of the series a while back, and I think they draw attention to Picard's "discomfort" with children at least once in the first 10 episodes or so. It's a very weird character trait by itself, but the fact they kept bringing it up is one of the weirdest choices the show made.

I wonder then if was the best choice making him captain of a ship full of them.

 

[at Quark's]

I wonder then if was the best choice making him captain of a ship full of them.

Perhaps, but these things happen in real life too. Perhaps he was one of the most resounding names in Starfleet already before they appointed him to the captaincy of the flagship, and the admiralty wanted him to be the captain for that reason. He may even have protested his assignment to this new 'city in space' for that reason, only to hear 'oh, you'll learn quickly enough, now go do your duty' from them.

After all, Sisko started out not really wanting to be the commander of DS9, too.

 

[aquova]

It's one thing for him not to like kids, and I'm sure they introduced that so that he could warm up to Wesley over the course of the show, but I find it a weird trait and weird how they kept bringing it up.

There's a scene in one of the first 5 episodes or so, where the crew goes into the Observation Lounge, only for there to be two random kids playing in there. Riker has to shoo them away in a hurry while Picard looks on in disgust. It's such a bizarre scene.

EDIT: It's S01E04 - The Last Output, about 18:30 into the episode.

 

[Farscape One]

I don't think it's odd that Picard felt uncomfortable around children. Many people in real life don't like being around kids. (I am not one of them, I love kids. But certain personality traits that people have tend to be uncomfortable around kids... snobbery being one of them, and Picard has exhibited the snobbery trait on multiple occasions.)

Add in the fact that there are children present on a starship, a place Picard has always seen as a professional environment, and I can see why he feels they are out of place there.

An example of this 'out of place' feeling is DS9's "THE SOUND OF HER VOICE". Kasidy was aboard as a convoy liaison officer, but Sisko was uncomfortable with her there. It wasn't because he didn't love her or felt she wasn't good at her job (he even said she was a 'damned good one' when he was talking to Lisa)... it was a simple matter of him feeling she was out of place on the Defiant.


So while I don't agree with his personal discomfort of children in general, I do agree with him being uncomfortable with them on the Enterprise, because it's a dangerous place to have children present.

 

[Skipper]

I wonder when he had the opportunity to, well, meet children so he could cultivate his phobia. He always gave me the impression thathe didn't have much of a social life before enrolling in the Academy.

Maybe it can be explained retroactively with what happened with her mother.

 

[Farscape One]

I wonder when he had the opportunity to, well, meet children so he could cultivate his phobia. He always gave me the impression thathe didn't have much of a social life before enrolling in the Academy.

Maybe it can be explained retroactively with what happened with her mother.

He basically said that he 'virtually skipped his childhood' while he was pursuing his goal of being in Starfleet to Troi. I believe it was in "Suddenly Human".

So that does make sense.

 

[fireproof78]

I wonder then if was the best choice making him captain of a ship full of them.

As he would tell Sisko officers don't have the luxury of choosing their assignments.

I wonder when he had the opportunity to, well, meet children so he could cultivate his phobia. He always gave me the impression thathe didn't have much of a social life before enrolling in the Academy.

Phobia is perhaps not the best word. I don't think he fears them. I think he doesn't have time for them. They are chaotic, noisy, highly irrational, illogical, and impulsive. You see that at all aspects of Picard that he values order on his ship: "On the Enterprise things don't just happen!" He values things being in their place and responsibility. Children represent an aspect of life that he finds extremely distasteful.

And he is not alone in that. There are many people I know who are just uncomfortable around children, don't enjoy them, treat them as adults, or as nonpersons. Taking care of children is a task not for the faint of heart.

 

[at Quark's]

EDIT: It's S01E04 - The Last Output, about 18:30 into the episode.

Well, they were in a somewhat tense situation, and that room was supposed to be off-limits to kids in the first place (as Riker said).

I think they wanted to show Picard as an intensely private man, sticking to formality, a man that always put his career before his social life (and a family), but they overshot their mark in the first season, making him appear needlessly 'grumpy'. They got that balanced out better in later seasons.

 

[Oddish]

I liked Picard's difficulty with kids just fine. We all have people we suck at dealing with. For me it's peers, for Picard it's kids.

One thing I wish they had done, though. After "The Inner Light", Picard maintained his skill set and attitudes gained there. So, they should have made him enthusiastic about Captain Picard Day, and shown him handling it with the same panache as he handled playing with his grandson on Kataan. Just a way to show growth.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Jean-Luc being uncomfortable around kids is one of my favorite character traits of his and one reason why I adore season 1 and 2 Jean-Luc the most. I'd be just as uncomfortable around kids. It's relatable to me.

But yeah he could be a snob towards those who didn't live up to his expectations. I cringe SO much whenever I think of the way he treats Tam Elbrun. I know, I know, mental illness was treated differently back in the late 80s/early 90s AND we are once again in the middle of a possible shootout with the Romulans so of course Jean-Luc is tense but holy moly (it's a pattern, he's at his worst personality-wise when the ship is in danger, I realize it's probably meant to be part of his character but ugh, did they HAVE to do this). His downright disgusted face when Troi tells him that Tam was a patient and not a colleage. That one really hurts.