Miranda Class Phasers

[Herkimer Jitty]

Forcefields were seen sealing breaches onscreen in VOY and NEM. They were noted as being in place in TNG's spinoffs. (According to my iPhone, 'spinoff' is not an actual word, and is in fact, a mispelled version of 'zoonose')

Retcon, apply directly to TWOK.
Retcon, apply directly to TWOK.

 

[Timo]

We also see breach-securing forcefields in action aboard the Enterprise-B in ST:GEN. It's clearly a late 23rd century technology, in addition to being a verified 24th century one and a suspected late 22nd and early 23rd one.

On the role of these forcefields in ST2:TWoK, it might be that Kirk would use them with more skill than Khan - and that Kirk would have much more crew than Khan as well, making it more imperative to preserve internal atmosphere everywhere in the ship. Clearly, hull-piercing shots have relatively little effect on the overall survival of the cadet crew, as no mention is made of their fate: if we assume the existence of emergency forcefields, we can well suspect that everybody in compromised compartments would be considered lost and everybody outside them safe by default, without further need for dialogue references.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

We don't see the forcefields, we only see a hole in the ship. You're only assuming there's a forcefield because Chekov and Scotty are able to walk into that compartment.

 

[Saquist]

Correct^
And if was indeed a forcefield it was an advance MK II of the Excellsior class.
Not seen in TUC on the new Enterprise at any point.
We also can speculate that the shields shields can do the same thing (hold air in) since the style of shields they had back then were omni lateral and not omni directional.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

We only saw omni lateral shields on the Ent-A and Excelsior. There's nothing to indicate that the Ent-B had them. Or that they had shields at all. Its just speculation.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

So how do YOU suppose the phasers managed to damage systems inside the ship? By osmosis?

That's a different issue.
The evidence at hand:
No Fires.
No blow outs
No debris

All three of which were present in EVERY SINGLE PHASER STRIKE of the film.

With out these elements how can we say ti's a Hull Breach?

We don't have to. Because--as I have said at least four times now--the phaser strike has to at least penetrate the hull plating in order to damage the ship's internal systems. Even if it doesn't penetrate the pressure vessel inhabited by the crew, it HAS to have penetrated the hull plating, or else it wouldn't have damaged anything inside the ship. And by now we know and can assume enough about Treknology to assume that any breach to the pressure hull would be quickly sealed by emergency forcefields anyway.

It's not the claim that's important.

Then you're wasting all of our time by continuing to dispute such a blatantly obvious point.

The claim here is that Reliant's phasers were more powerful than Enterprise. Considering Enterprise condition it might not be possible to prove.

Strictly speaking, it isn't. We have visual evidence to suggests Reliant intentionally fired its phasers at a reduced power setting to avoid destroying Enterprise outright; Khan wanted to be able to gloat over Kirk--and maybe get some information about Genesis--before delivering a killing blow. In subsequent battles, both ships were still suffering battle damage and not fighting at 100%, so we are left without a demonstration of Reliant Full Phasers vs. Enterprise full phasers.

Reliant's Splash against Enterprise's Hull was at least 2x as large...

and you've been around these threads long enough to know that size does not equate to power. What matters here is damage dealt. Reliant suffered loss of impulse power, weapons and warp drive; Enterprise lost the same, BUT still had impulse/auxiliary power until Reliant hit them with a photon torpedo. This means Enterprise managed to deliver the same amount of damage with its phaser strike as Reliant had with its own phasers, IN ADDITION to knocking out its weapons.

 

[Gagarin]

We only saw omni lateral shields on the Ent-A and Excelsior. There's nothing to indicate that the Ent-B had them. Or that they had shields at all. Its just speculation.

Omni-what?

TUC Ent-A, when shielded, a Klingon/Federation torpedo will leave a scorch mark and some sort of hull damage.

TUC Excelsior, when shielded, a Klingon/Federation torpedo did not leave a scorch mark. It exploded and fissiled.

 

[Saquist]

Omni-what?

Omni-Lateral: That means it covers "all sides" as opposed to omni directional which is the bubble shields the Galaxy Class debuted with.

All three of which were present in EVERY SINGLE PHASER STRIKE of the film.

I can't concur. At the point those phasers hit there was NO fire seen inside the ship, only gas. No debris seen flying out from the phaser strike point.


We don't have to. Because--as I have said at least four times now--the phaser strike has to at least penetrate the hull plating in order to damage the ship's internal systems. Even if it doesn't penetrate the pressure vessel inhabited by the crew, it HAS to have penetrated the hull plating, or else it wouldn't have damaged anything inside the ship. And by now we know and can assume enough about Treknology to assume that any breach to the pressure hull would be quickly sealed by emergency forcefields anyway.

Strictly speaking, it isn't. We have visual evidence to suggests Reliant intentionally fired its phasers at a reduced power setting to avoid destroying Enterprise outright;

That's a misinterpretation;
The control board doesn't show. It shows minmal warp power to the phasers, not the same as reduced phaser power.

Khan wanted to be able to gloat over Kirk--and maybe get some information about Genesis--before delivering a killing blow. In subsequent battles, both ships were still suffering battle damage and not fighting at 100%, so we are left without a demonstration of Reliant Full Phasers vs. Enterprise full phasers.

I think both ships were firing at full power with the phasers. Reliant seems to be the only one that was firing less than max yield for the first torpedo. Enterprises torpedo clearly did a heck of lot more damage than it's.

and you've been around these threads long enough to know that size does not equate to power. What matters here is damage dealt. Reliant suffered loss of impulse power, weapons and warp drive; Enterprise lost the same, BUT still had impulse/auxiliary power until Reliant hit them with a photon torpedo. This means Enterprise managed to deliver the same amount of damage with its phaser strike as Reliant had with its own phasers, IN ADDITION to knocking out its weapons.

I don't think so.
Not only was Enterprise disabling permanent...and Reliant quickly repaired their damage with a far smaller crew, Reliant still had shields It's no where close to equal.

 

[blssdwlf]

Omni-what?

Omni-Lateral: That means it covers "all sides" as opposed to omni directional which is the bubble shields the Galaxy Class debuted with.

Ah. You say "omni-lateral" and I say "conformal". Or more accurately, "adjustable" since TOS had the Enterprise able to project her shields to protect other ships.

I think both ships were firing at full power with the phasers. Reliant seems to be the only one that was firing less than max yield for the first torpedo. Enterprises torpedo clearly did a heck of lot more damage than it's.

Wait a sec. So just that we're on the same page here:

How many times was the Enterprise hit by Reliant in the initial attack? More than 3 times.

What was Khan's intent again? "I mean to avenge myself upon you, Admiral. I've deprived your ship of power and when I swing round I mean to deprive you of your life. But I wanted you to know first who it was who had beaten you."

Did Khan fire a full-powered photon torpedo at the Enterprise? Refer to line above as to why he would not. However, low-power photon torpedoes are quite capable of causing internal damage without leaving external scarring based on ST3 FX.

How much power did Kirk have available to fire back? "A few shots" from "just the batteries."

How can you possibly infer that the Reliant and the Enterprise were firing "full power" phasers? Are you making any distinction as to the power source, whether it is warp or auxiliary or reserve batteries?

I don't think so.
Not only was Enterprise disabling permanent...and Reliant quickly repaired their damage with a far smaller crew, Reliant still had shields It's no where close to equal.

True on the amount of damage. Khan hit the Enterprise multiple times (5-8 low-power phaser/torpedo combos) and was fairly thorough in damaging her power systems. Khan however did not do anything to damage the Enterprise's fire control or weapons.

Kirk on the other hand in two low-power phaser strikes damaged or destroyed the photon controls (Reliant was never able to accurately use the photons afterwards) and damaged their warp engines (effectively disabling phasers) which caused at some point a temporary failure in the impulse drive too. Kirk just didn't have any more shots left to cause more damage and with Reliant's power systems more intact, the Enterprise was at a disadvantage for the later battle. For Kirk to cause the same amount of damage, he'd need probably 5-8 strikes on the Reliant to even the damages.

 

[Saquist]

Ah. You say "omni-lateral" and I say "conformal". Or more accurately, "adjustable" since TOS had the Enterprise able to project her shields to protect other ships.

I don't know where the fans got that from.
Conformal is map or mathematics term. There is no application for "conformal" any where else I've ever found but with Trek fans.

Wait a sec. So just that we're on the same page here:

How many times was the Enterprise hit by Reliant in the initial attack? More than 3 times.

At least 2 times given the editing...potentially 3 or more

What was Khan's intent again? "I mean to avenge myself upon you, Admiral. I've deprived your ship of power and when I swing round I mean to deprive you of your life. But I wanted you to know first who it was who had beaten you."

Indeed.

Did Khan fire a full-powered photon torpedo at the Enterprise? Refer to line above as to why he would not. However, low-power photon torpedoes are quite capable of causing internal damage without leaving external scarring based on ST3 FX.

It would be more accurate to compare strikes withing in the movie itself instead else where. It could be cumbersome to expect the same FX intent out of two different movies. This is really about Reliant and Enterprise.

How much power did Kirk have available to fire back? "A few shots" from "just the batteries."

Indeed.

How can you possibly infer that the Reliant and the Enterprise were firing "full power" phasers? Are you making any distinction as to the power source, whether it is warp or auxiliary or reserve batteries?

It's never been determined that Power source decides firepower. I think people make this mistake in relationship because they don't understand how capacitors work where by it's possible to convert and store low voltage for high voltage release. As a result the batteries may have had more than enough power to power the phasers but not quickly as if the impulse engines or warp engines were directly tied in there by bypassing the need for the capacitor

Weapons are usually design limited. They have a set output for maximum. So many rounds per sec before over heat, so many watts through a lense and so forth. I think it's safe to say that the warp engines can channel more power to the phasers than they are capable of discharging at one time. Geordie makes that statement at least in TNG. Regardless of his statement infering more power as more destructive can be problematic.

True on the amount of damage. Khan hit the Enterprise multiple times (5-8 low-power phaser/torpedo combos) and was fairly thorough in damaging her power systems. Khan however did not do anything to damage the Enterprise's fire control or weapons.

I can't say 5-8 times.
On the One HAND:
The Bridge continues to rumble after the strike suggestin the Enterprise was still being fired on when Sulu says he can't get power.

On the Other hand we only see 2 marks on the hull of the Enterprise. Engineering and the torpedo hit.

On the Third hand there is additional damage on the hull in STIII.

Kirk on the other hand in two low-power phaser strikes damaged or destroyed the photon controls (Reliant was never able to accurately use the photons afterwards) and damaged their warp engines (effectively disabling phasers)[/QUOTE]

That doesn't sound like an accurate assessment of those attacks.

which caused at some point a temporary failure in the impulse drive too. Kirk just didn't have any more shots left to cause more damage and with Reliant's power systems more intact, the Enterprise was at a disadvantage for the later battle. For Kirk to cause the same amount of damage, he'd need probably 5-8 strikes on the Reliant to even the damages.[/QUOTE]

 

[Timo]

We don't see the forcefields, we only see a hole in the ship. You're only assuming there's a forcefield because Chekov and Scotty are able to walk into that compartment.

That's the very definition of a "safe assumption", though!

TMP already featured physical holes that didn't cause the suffocation of shirtsleeves personnel. There's no real reason to doubt the existence of compartment-sealing invisible forcefields in the 2270s-2280s timeframe - especially when ENT went to pains to show the inception of this technology in the 2150s already.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Birdog]

Ah. You say "omni-lateral" and I say "conformal". Or more accurately, "adjustable" since TOS had the Enterprise able to project her shields to protect other ships.

I don't know where the fans got that from.
Conformal is map or mathematics term. There is no application for "conformal" any where else I've ever found but with Trek fans.

Conformal: meaning to conform to the shape. Conformal phased array radar is a radar that is built to the same shape as the underlying surface. Conformal fuel tanks on F-15Es and F-16Es conform to the shape of the fuselage to reduce drag.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

We don't see the forcefields, we only see a hole in the ship. You're only assuming there's a forcefield because Chekov and Scotty are able to walk into that compartment.

That's the very definition of a "safe assumption", though!

You're grasping at straws, mate.

 

[Timo]

You must be kidding...

...Right?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I can't concur. At the point those phasers hit there was NO fire seen inside the ship, only gas. No debris seen flying out from the phaser strike point.

There has NEVER been visible debris flying OUT from strike points, so this is a moot point. We have occasionally seen this from photon torpedoes, but the only OTHER time we see this is when Enterprise blows up Reliant's nacelle.

The control board doesn't show. It shows minmal warp power to the phasers, not the same as reduced phaser power.

Actually, that IS the same as reduced phaser power. At the very least, significantly reduced from what they would be if warp power had been transferred to phasers (i.e. maximum possible output).

When Joachim fires Reliant's phasers we can partially see the power control board over his shoulder. At least three of the "warp power" lights are dark. The fourth appears to be as well, since when we see this console on the Enterprise the lighting of one of the four squares partially lights the one next to it (since the bulbs are very close together on the prop).

That all four of the sliders are lit all the way to the top is irrelevant; it simply means Reliant wasn't firing her phasers on a stun setting.

I don't think so.
Not only was Enterprise disabling permanent...

But it wasn't. She went to warp again at the end of the movie to escape the nebula. There's nothing permanent about that.

and Reliant quickly repaired their damage with a far smaller crew

But not as quickly as Scotty's cadets, who were able to restore impulse power before Peter Preston had time to die. Thus Enterprise was able to make it to Regula-1 and snoop around for a couple of hours before Reliant was even able to get her full maneuvering power back. The MOMENT they got impulse power back, Khan took the Reliant back to Regula to try and finish off the Enterprise, only to discover that Enterprise--having apparently repaired damage to their long range sensors--had left that position to hide from him. Reliant wasn't able to track Enterprise until they made visual contact on rounding the planetoid, which means THEIR sensors weren't fully functional when they went into the nebula.

Reliant still had shields

Presumably, so did Enterprise. But with only partial main power, probably not alot.

 

[Gagarin]

We don't see the forcefields, we only see a hole in the ship. You're only assuming there's a forcefield because Chekov and Scotty are able to walk into that compartment.

That's the very definition of a "safe assumption", though!

You're grasping at straws, mate.

LOL.
TMP - the shuttlebay doors were OPEN and the cargobay, with a flying workbee cargo truck, was still a shirt sleeve environment. That's forcefields

I believe that's true for TFF also.

TOS, of course, depressurized and re-pressurized the shutttlebay.

 

[Timo]

Also, given how I was humor-impaired yesterday, I was pondering on pointing out that ST:GEN explicitly uses the expression "emergency forcefields in place"...

TOS, of course, depressurized and re-pressurized the shuttlebay.

To nitpick, they only adjusted the pressure of the shuttle HANGAR. There never was mention of a shuttlebay. And there never were people depicted in the big space that had the clamshell doors aft.

If that big space was the shuttlebay or flight deck or somesuch, and the shuttles then always descended to the hangar deck via that turntable-elevator for embarking and disembarking, then we'd get a perfect explanation for how the background of embarkation scenes never matched the interior of the big space.

OTOH, if they did have to adjust the pressure of the hangar, it would be illogical to assume they had constant pressure in the landing bay, which is bigger and closer to space...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[blssdwlf]

It would be more accurate to compare strikes withing in the movie itself instead else where. It could be cumbersome to expect the same FX intent out of two different movies. This is really about Reliant and Enterprise.

Ok, here you go

How can you possibly infer that the Reliant and the Enterprise were firing "full power" phasers? Are you making any distinction as to the power source, whether it is warp or auxiliary or reserve batteries?

It's never been determined that Power source decides firepower.
...
I think it's safe to say that the warp engines can channel more power to the phasers than they are capable of discharging at one time. Geordie makes that statement at least in TNG. Regardless of his statement infering more power as more destructive can be problematic.

Correct in that it only applies to TNG. It's safe to say that for the TOS crew the ship's phasers can channel more power than the warp engines can put out.

From "The Paradise Syndrome"
SPOCK: Correct, Mister Chekov. I intend to retreat in front of that asteroid until we can employ all power on phaser beams.
...
SPOCK: Lock all phasers on that mark. Maximum intensity, narrow beam. I want to split that fissure wide open.
...
SPOCK: We'll fire in sequence and continue firing as long as Mister Scott can maintain power.
SCOTT: That Vulcan won't be satisfied till these panels are a puddle of lead.
...
SPOCK: Rig for simultaneous firing, Mister Sulu. Commence simultaneous bombardment.
...
SCOTT: My bairns. My poor bairns.
SCOTT [OC]: Don't ask for anymore warp nine speeds, Mister Spock. Our star drive is completely burned out. The only thing we have left is impulse power.

and from TMP the warp power to phaser relationship is clearly pointed out. Without main engines, phaser power is reduced.

DECKER: Sir, the Enterprise redesign increases phaser power by channeling it through the main engines.

True on the amount of damage. Khan hit the Enterprise multiple times (5-8 low-power phaser/torpedo combos) and was fairly thorough in damaging her power systems. Khan however did not do anything to damage the Enterprise's fire control or weapons.

I can't say 5-8 times.
On the One HAND:
The Bridge continues to rumble after the strike suggestin the Enterprise was still being fired on when Sulu says he can't get power.

On the Other hand we only see 2 marks on the hull of the Enterprise. Engineering and the torpedo hit.

Or on the other hand - not only does the engineering section rock a couple of more times *After* we see Khan's initial phaser strike, so does the bridge and we also see 5-8 spots of damage on the damage control monitors which are pointed out to us by Kirk and Spock. That counts as multiple strikes, even though it happened off screen. And this is before we Khan's final torpedo strike.

 

[Saquist]

There has NEVER been visible debris flying OUT from strike points, so this is a moot point. We have occasionally seen this from photon torpedoes, but the only OTHER time we see this is when Enterprise blows up Reliant's nacelle.

"Never" except two 2x.
Gotcha...

Actually, that IS the same as reduced phaser power. At the very least, significantly reduced from what they would be if warp power had been transferred to phasers (i.e. maximum possible output).

When Joachim fires Reliant's phasers we can partially see the power control board over his shoulder.

We've been through these images. That's firing control not power, charge or transfer control. Those panels are shown in this thread.

But it wasn't. She went to warp again at the end of the movie to escape the nebula. There's nothing permanent about that.

Semantics.
Opposition with out supposition, reason or meaning is irrelevant. So Spock fixed it. It means nothing to the previous statement. So all Scotty had to do was sacrifice his life...get outta here...

But not as quickly as Scotty's cadets,

who were able to restore impulse power before Peter Preston had time to die. Thus Enterprise was able to make it to Regula-1 and snoop around for a couple of hours before Reliant was even able to get her full maneuvering power back. The MOMENT they got impulse power back, Khan took the Reliant back to Regula to try and finish off the Enterprise, only to discover that Enterprise--having apparently repaired damage to their long range sensors--had left that position to hide from him. Reliant wasn't able to track Enterprise until they made visual contact on rounding the planetoid, which means THEIR sensors weren't fully functional when they went into the nebula.[/QUOTE]

Editing makes that difficult to determine.
When Joachim gives the report they don't immediately go after Enterprise do they? I remembe the scene being seperate from the "where is she" seen. Khan believed he had more than enough time.

Reliant still had shields

Presumably, so did Enterprise. But with only partial main power, probably not alot.[/QUOTE]

It would be more accurate to compare strikes withing in the movie itself instead else where. It could be cumbersome to expect the same FX intent out of two different movies. This is really about Reliant and Enterprise.

Ok, here you go

Firstly Reliant wasn't impulse powered, she was warp powered. And we still don't know if the phasers on Reliant were actually "low powered" so that's speculation.

It's safe to say that for the TOS crew the ship's phasers can channel more power than the warp engines can put out.

I'll take these one at a time.

From "The Paradise Syndrome"
SPOCK: Correct, Mister Chekov. I intend to retreat in front of that asteroid until we can employ all power on phaser beams.

The inference here is general.
For instance in the first Pilot they channel as much as they can but they threaten to burn out the circuits. In the above statement and result doesn't show that the complete power of the ship is channeled through the phasers...the ship doesn't go dark, systems don't fail

...
SPOCK: Lock all phasers on that mark. Maximum intensity, narrow beam. I want to split that fissure wide open.

No power reference here.
...

SPOCK: We'll fire in sequence and continue firing as long as Mister Scott can maintain power.

That's almost what I'm looking for but I don't know the conditions at the time. Was the ship at red alert, where other power hungry system in play? If so then the context is important between all the power of the ship is in the phasers and power levels won't be able all the ship's systems and firing the phasers at max at the same time continuously. As long as there is an option between these two it means nothing can be deduced from the statement.

SCOTT: That Vulcan won't be satisfied till these panels are a puddle of lead.

No direct reference to that of the ships power and phasers

...
SPOCK: Rig for simultaneous firing, Mister Sulu. Commence simultaneous bombardment.
...
SCOTT: My bairns. My poor bairns.
SCOTT [OC]: Don't ask for anymore warp nine speeds, Mister Spock. Our star drive is completely burned out. The only thing we have left is impulse power.

Ah and heres the problem.
TOS treated the engines differently than in TMP. I'm not sure exactly what the stardrive did that burned them out. It's hard to tell. I'd have to see for my self.

and from TMP the warp power to phaser relationship is clearly pointed out. Without main engines, phaser power is reduced.

DECKER: Sir, the Enterprise redesign increases phaser power by channeling it through the main engines.

I've said before. This is inconclusive: Phaser power could mean more power to fire and thus no recharge time or it could mean more powerful phaser blast. As long as there is an option it's not a direction inference.

Or on the other hand - not only does the engineering section rock a couple of more times *After* we see Khan's initial phaser strike, so does the bridge and we also see 5-8 spots of damage on the damage control monitors which are pointed out to us by Kirk and Spock. That counts as multiple strikes, even though it happened off screen. And this is before we Khan's final torpedo strike.

We still need inference.
Speculation either way isn't really leading to anything conclusive but rather just speculation on both sides. Remember other factors could be involved with causing that other damage or the rocking.

 

[blssdwlf]

Firstly Reliant wasn't impulse powered, she was warp powered.

Ah, I see where I mislabeled it. Corrected now.

And we still don't know if the phasers on Reliant were actually "low powered" so that's speculation.

And yet we still don't know if the the phasers on Reliant were actually "full powered" so that's speculation. But wait, we see that the Reliant isn't putting all or perhaps any of her warp power into the phaser attack... (Plus, now that we've got some visual comparisons, Reliant's initial attack and damage looks just like the later battle where everyone is damaged and firing at reduce power levels.)

I'll take these one at a time.

The inference here is general.
For instance in the first Pilot they channel as much as they can but they threaten to burn out the circuits. In the above statement and result doesn't show that the complete power of the ship is channeled through the phasers...the ship doesn't go dark, systems don't fail

There is no reason for the ship to go dark if the mains or even the mains AND auxiliary power goes out. The ship's reserve power system (aka batteries) *almost always* kick in to maintain life support, lights, gravity, systems, etc. Heck, in "Mudd's Women" they were on only batteries to hold orbit, operate sensors and transporters, etc.

No power reference here.
...
That's almost what I'm looking for but I don't know the conditions at the time. Was the ship at red alert, where other power hungry system in play? If so then the context is important between all the power of the ship is in the phasers and power levels won't be able all the ship's systems and firing the phasers at max at the same time continuously. As long as there is an option between these two it means nothing can be deduced from the statement.

I encourage you to watch the episode, "The Paradise Syndrome". And BTW, given your above questioning, why aren't you applying this to the Reliant's initial attack on the Enterprise and her firing "full phasers"?

The Enterprise strains her warp engines to get to intercept an asteroid the size of Earth's moon. Arriving at the intercept point, the ship channels all main power aka "full power" into a deflector push but it wasn't enough. They then proceed to get in front of the asteroid in an attempt to split in half. Once again, they put all power into the phaser attack and end up burning out the warp engines.

From "The Paradise Syndrome":

SPOCK: Correct, Mister Chekov. I intend to retreat in front of that asteroid until we can employ all power on phaser beams.
MCCOY: What for?
SPOCK: To destroy it. A narrow beam concentrated on a single spot will split that mass.
MCCOY: It might also cripple the ship, and we would be crushed by the asteroid.
SPOCK: Incorrect. We'll still be able to get out of its path by use of impulse power.
MCCOY: Jim won't be able to get out of its path.
SPOCK: That, Doctor, is another calculated risk we must take.

and from TMP the warp power to phaser relationship is clearly pointed out. Without main engines, phaser power is reduced.

DECKER: Sir, the Enterprise redesign increases phaser power by channeling it through the main engines.

I've said before. This is inconclusive: Phaser power could mean more power to fire and thus no recharge time or it could mean more powerful phaser blast. As long as there is an option it's not a direction inference.

Your argument would be valid if Decker said, "the Enterprise redesign increases phaser firing rates by channeling it through the main engines". However, Decker says specifically phaser power. Now, you can pretend that he said something different, as YMMV.

Or on the other hand - not only does the engineering section rock a couple of more times *After* we see Khan's initial phaser strike, so does the bridge and we also see 5-8 spots of damage on the damage control monitors which are pointed out to us by Kirk and Spock. That counts as multiple strikes, even though it happened off screen. And this is before we Khan's final torpedo strike.

We still need inference.
Speculation either way isn't really leading to anything conclusive but rather just speculation on both sides. Remember other factors could be involved with causing that other damage or the rocking.

So then we shouldn't be speculating that Reliant has more powerful phasers, eh?