McCoy's BS Treatment Of Spock

[Starborn Dragon]

I'm sorry, but i really don't like McCoy's treatment of Spock. I really don't understand why he must do what he can to goad Spock or what he really wants out of him. There are plenty of examples, but I'll just use two.

This is dialogue from Conscience Of The king

Dr. McCoy: "Would you care for a drink, Mr. Spock?"
Spock: "My father's race was spared the dubious benefits of alcohol."
Dr. McCoy: "Oh. Now I know why they were conquered."

This is their exchange from TMP, of course:

[FONT=Arial]SPOCK: Science officer Spock, reporting as ordered, Captain.
KIRK: Please sit down.
McCOY: Spock, you haven't changed a bit. You're just as warm and sociable as ever.
SPOCK: Nor have you, Doctor, as your continued predilection for irrelevancy demonstrates.
KIRK: Gentlemen. At last report you were on Vulcan. Apparently to stay.
McCOY: Yes, you were undergoing the Kolineer discipline.
KIRK: Sit down.
SPOCK: If you are referring to the Kolinahr, Doctor, you are correct.
McCOY: Well, however it's pronounced, Mister Spock, it's the Vulcan ritual supposed to purge all remaining emotions.
KIRK: The Kolinahr is also the discipline you broke ...to join us. Will you, please, ...sit down!
SPOCK: On Vulcan I began sensing a consciousness of a force more powerful than I have ever encountered. Thought patterns of exactingly perfect order. I believe they emanate from the intruder. I believe it may hold my answers.
McCOY: Well, isn't it lucky for you that we just happened to be heading your way?
KIRK: Bones! We need him. I need him.
SPOCK: Then my presence is to our mutual advantage.
KIRK: Any thought patterns you might sense, ...whether they appear to affect you personally or not, I expect to be immediately reported.
SPOCK: Of course, Captain. Is there anything else?
KIRK: No.
McCOY: Jim, ...if this super-intelligence is as important to him as he says, how do we know?
KIRK: That he wouldn't put his interests ahead of the ship's. I could never believe that.
McCOY: How do we know about any of us?
UHURA (on intercom): Bridge to Officer's lounge, Captain Kirk. Revised estimate on Cloud visual contact, three point seven minutes.
KIRK: On my way.


So I really don't understand why Bones treats Spock this way and what he hopes to gain. Because of his constant digs at Spock like this, I've developed a strong dislike of him. this is entirely disrespectful to Spock to treat him this way.


[/FONT]

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I don't think your reaction to McCoy is very common, especially among fans who got into Star Trek before today's high degree of cultural sensitivity took hold. McCoy was just a regular guy back then.

On the other hand, many Lost in Space fans were uncomfortable with Major Don West's harsh treatment of the long-suffering Dr. Smith.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

McCoy and Spock were friends enough for both to take it as repartee.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Spock gave as good as he got in his exchanges with McCoy--although his barbs were more subtle and therefore easier to miss. In spite of their differences, Spock and McCoy were close friends and respected each other; that Spock trusted McCoy with his katra is indicative of the bond they shared.

--Sran

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I've said so on the board before, but I think that McCoy goes too far with remarks like "green-blooded." I guess the idea could be that he is taking pokes at Spock for not outwardly acknowledging his human side, but it comes off as, essentially, racist against Vulcans for just being Vulcans. It was never really established just what it was Spock did to McCoy that would justify such behavior; McCoy is supposed to be a space doctor, after all, comfortable treating and being around aliens. Really, this seems as a way of trying to draw the audience in, by proofing the show against people who might be tempted to make fun of Spock's appearance themselves.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Really, this seems as a way of trying to draw the audience in, by proofing the show against people who might be tempted to make fun of Spock's appearance themselves.

McCoy as an audience representative for those who don't like Spock? Maybe. But also maybe it was about giving Spock a little adversity as the sympathetic audience representative for lonely, alienated people. The cliche Spock fan was the kid in the Chess Club and advanced-placement Math who did poorly in Gym.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Really, this seems as a way of trying to draw the audience in, by proofing the show against people who might be tempted to make fun of Spock's appearance themselves.

McCoy as an audience representative for those who don't like Spock? Maybe. But also maybe it was about giving Spock a little adversity as the sympathetic audience representative for lonely, alienated people. The cliche Spock fan was the kid in the Chess Club and advanced-placement Math who did poorly in Gym.

Sure!

 

[USS Triumphant]

Perhaps McCoy had a touch of the anti-Vulcan bias that we saw on Enterprise (left over from a family feud with some Vulcan Hatfields? ) before serving with Spock, and the exaggerated "racism" is as much a way for him to make fun of his own previous feelings as it is a way to jab at Spock. And maybe Spock knows this, too.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Spock gave as good as he got in his exchanges with McCoy

This. On the show, McCoy was often defending humanity against Spock's pointed barbs.

before today's high degree of cultural sensitivity took hold.

And this. In the 60s and 70s, we had more important things to get worked up about than insults to imaginary alien races on TV shows.

Also, if one wants to make the OP's argument, there are far better examples of McCoy taking things too far with Spock in some TOS episodes.

On the other hand, many Lost in Space fans were uncomfortable with Major Don West's harsh treatment of the long-suffering Dr. Smith.

Really? I'd have stood up and cheered if West had shot the drama queen.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

McCoy was the emotional counterbalance to Spock's cold rationality. He lensed the natural emotional reaction people feel to a logical but necessary sacrifice for the greater good.

 

[Push The Button]

Beneath it all, Spock and McCoy respected and cared for one another, regardless of the banter.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm sorry, but i really don't like McCoy's treatment of Spock. I really don't understand why he must do what he can to goad Spock or what he really wants out of him. There are plenty of examples, but I'll just use two.

This is dialogue from Conscience Of The king

Dr. McCoy: "Would you care for a drink, Mr. Spock?"
Spock: "My father's race was spared the dubious benefits of alcohol."
Dr. McCoy: "Oh. Now I know why they were conquered."

This is their exchange from TMP, of course:

[FONT=Arial]SPOCK: Science officer Spock, reporting as ordered, Captain.
KIRK: Please sit down.
McCOY: Spock, you haven't changed a bit. You're just as warm and sociable as ever.
SPOCK: Nor have you, Doctor, as your continued predilection for irrelevancy demonstrates.
KIRK: Gentlemen. At last report you were on Vulcan. Apparently to stay.
McCOY: Yes, you were undergoing the Kolineer discipline.
KIRK: Sit down.
SPOCK: If you are referring to the Kolinahr, Doctor, you are correct.
McCOY: Well, however it's pronounced, Mister Spock, it's the Vulcan ritual supposed to purge all remaining emotions.
KIRK: The Kolinahr is also the discipline you broke ...to join us. Will you, please, ...sit down!
SPOCK: On Vulcan I began sensing a consciousness of a force more powerful than I have ever encountered. Thought patterns of exactingly perfect order. I believe they emanate from the intruder. I believe it may hold my answers.
McCOY: Well, isn't it lucky for you that we just happened to be heading your way?
KIRK: Bones! We need him. I need him.
SPOCK: Then my presence is to our mutual advantage.
KIRK: Any thought patterns you might sense, ...whether they appear to affect you personally or not, I expect to be immediately reported.
SPOCK: Of course, Captain. Is there anything else?
KIRK: No.
McCOY: Jim, ...if this super-intelligence is as important to him as he says, how do we know?
KIRK: That he wouldn't put his interests ahead of the ship's. I could never believe that.
McCOY: How do we know about any of us?
UHURA (on intercom): Bridge to Officer's lounge, Captain Kirk. Revised estimate on Cloud visual contact, three point seven minutes.
KIRK: On my way.


So I really don't understand why Bones treats Spock this way and what he hopes to gain. Because of his constant digs at Spock like this, I've developed a strong dislike of him. this is entirely disrespectful to Spock to treat him this way.


[/FONT]

As digs against Spock go, those are some pretty weak examples.

 

[MacLeod]

Spock gave as good as he got in his exchanges with McCoy

This. On the show, McCoy was often defending humanity against Spock's pointed barbs.

before today's high degree of cultural sensitivity took hold.

And this. In the 60s and 70s, we had more important things to get worked up about than insults to imaginary alien races on TV shows.

Also, if one wants to make the OP's argument, there are far better examples of McCoy taking things too far with Spock in some TOS episodes.

On the other hand, many Lost in Space fans were uncomfortable with Major Don West's harsh treatment of the long-suffering Dr. Smith.

Really? I'd have stood up and cheered if West had shot the drama queen.

My memory of LIS might be a bit hazy but didn't Dr. Smith often place his own interests over those of the others, cause a lot of trouble etc.. So one could certainly empathise with Maj. West.

Now as for Spock and MCoy, we are dealing with two Adults here, surely all Spock had to do was ask McCoy to stop macking those comments. But I suppose being Vulcan they didn't bother him. And as others have pointed out it went both ways.

 

[Amaris]

I always took it as two very close friends engaging in a little good-natured ribbing. McCoy knew all the right ways to poke at Spock, and Spock knew how to get under McCoy's skin with little effort. It was their way of communicating. I saw no harm in it, and for me it only confirmed how close they really were when the chips were down.

 

[Deckerd]

I've said so on the board before, but I think that McCoy goes too far with remarks like "green-blooded." I guess the idea could be that he is taking pokes at Spock for not outwardly acknowledging his human side, but it comes off as, essentially, racist against Vulcans for just being Vulcans. It was never really established just what it was Spock did to McCoy that would justify such behavior; McCoy is supposed to be a space doctor, after all, comfortable treating and being around aliens. .

The characters were of the time they were written in. Spock was racist towards humans too. The whole show had various ways of being judgemental against different races.

Compare with a film made 8 years after ST last aired, which had a bar in a hive of scum and villainy called Mos Eisley where there were dozens of different species all sitting around drinking and chatting, fighting and making up with no bias at all to what species they were.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

Whilst I grew up watching TOS, it didn't bother me at the time. However, having seem some recently I think he does go over the top a little much for modern sensibilities. I don't think the JJ movies would be able to get away with so much, and fortunately they do seem to have toned it down to scenes with high emotion.

Like everyone others have said, knowing the characters have a mutuel respect for each other, that it is in good humour and is just part of the way they communicate, means that the scenes are still watchable. (If somewhat less comfortable than they might have been in decades gone by.

 

[Sybok Was Wrong]

When I was younger McCoy was arguably my favorite character.

I find, now, he's actually not a very likeable character at all.

McCoy is good to bounce dialog off of Spock. However with TNG,DS9, VOY & ENT---so many new characters exist now; where does McCoy rank?

He actually isn't really fleshed out onscreen at all. He's actually not very nice a lot of the time, just OK in casual moments with Kirk.

This is to take absolutely nothing away from DeForest Kelley, who seemed like a fine person.

 

[brandnewfan]

I don't really see the problem. They're friends. They have a good back and forth, even if Spock isn't as blatant about it. One of my good friends is exactly like this; it's not meant to be hurtful...it's playful more than anything.

 

[martok2112]

For all the minor strifes that Spock and McCoy had, it is clear that they are, indeed, good friends.

If they were going to be part of Kirk's inner circle, they'd have to be. Kirk relied on them both. Spock for his logic, McCoy for his conscience.

The way I always took McCoy was that he was just a down-home, country doctor who had a rough time dealing with any situation that involved life suddenly being evaluated in a matter of cold logic. McCoy often thought, and fought from the heart. To fight using simply the mind was somehow inconceivable to him. Spock was the ultimate focus of McCoy's conflict. He knew Spock was right many times, but he just couldn't admit it because that damned cold Vulcan logic flew against everything he felt.

However, for all the strifes, goads, and barbs McCoy tried to put into Spock (and occasionally succeeded), there were times when McCoy reached Spock's sense of humanity.

"Bread and Circuses" was a good example. After McCoy's little antagonisms while they were in their cage, with Jim absent, McCoy sees the moment where it is ok to say to Spock: "Yeah, Spock, I'm worried about the Captain too." Spock's reaction indicated that he understood.

Also, McCoy's confession to a comatose Spock in Star Trek III pretty much sealed the deal.

There was also, apparently, a bit of dialogue that was written, but might not have been shot, for Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. Spock and McCoy, working on the torpedo to defeat Chang. It is likely both thought they could very well die. IIRC, the dialogue went something like this:

SPOCK: You've been a worthy adversary, Dr. McCoy.
McCOY: We were just beginning to hit our stride.

 

[hux]

I always felt he went over the top. He flies off the handle a little too readily and the constant criticising of Spock being Vulcan and not emotional enough is definitely lacking in "evolved sensibilities". You can sorta forgive it in the original series but the fact is, it pretty much continued with the 90's shows too. They still did it.

The amount of times humans get angry with Vulcans because they don't exhibit enough emotion at certain events is immensely annoying. They're fucking Vulcans!!!

Watching Neelix and co mock Tuvok because he doesn't express emotions just feels like sanctioned bigotry. Mr Vulcan lol, you have black skin lol not like us with pink skin lol, you're different to us and therefore we will mock you lol. Why not try being more like us Mr Vulcan lol.