McCoy's BS Treatment Of Spock

[Nightdiamond]

OP may have a point. Maybe the later seasons and movies show the friendship between them. But earlier in the shows, McCoy comes off like he really doesn't like or trust Spock.

If you watch some of the earlier episodes, the dialog and exchange between Spock and McCoy, you can sense the hostility McCoy has towards Spock.

Quite a few crewman took pot shots at Spock.

 

[Starborn Dragon]

Spock gave as good as he got in his exchanges with McCoy--although his barbs were more subtle and therefore easier to miss. In spite of their differences, Spock and McCoy were close friends and respected each other; that Spock trusted McCoy with his katra is indicative of the bond they shared.

--Sran

I don't agree. Spock wanted Kirk to carry hist Katra, he chose Bones only ebcause Bones was the only one there.

And i don't really see the close friendship thing their, just a working relationship.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Quite a few crewman took pot shots at Spock.

Which never should have been allowed. As Kirk's second-in-command, Spock had authority over everyone aboard the ship except Kirk, who always seemed to treat Spock as an equal rather than a subordinate, asking for Spock's suggestions and advice as often he gave him orders.

But ordinary crewmen wouldn't have had such a relationship with Spock and therefore had no business criticizing his decisions or calling him names. Note that we never saw Stiles or Boma again, which makes me wonder if Kirk sent them packing once he no longer needed them.

--Sran

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I don't agree. Spock wanted Kirk to carry hist Katra, he chose Bones only ebcause Bones was the only one there.

I'll grant that Bones' presence was convenient, but Spock could just as easily have chosen Scotty. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Spock would have preferred Kirk carry his katra; Sarek assumed that Spock would have mind-melded with Kirk because he was the last person to see Spock alive, an assumption that proved incorrect, but we've no evidence to suggest that Spock would have transferred his katra to Kirk.

And i don't really see the close friendship thing their, just a working relationship.

"I'm going to tell you something that I never thought I'd hear myself say. It seems I've... missed you. I don't if I could stand to lose you again."

I don't know too many people who would say something like that to a mere colleague, even if said person wasn't able to hear them.

--Sran

 

[Nerys Myk]

Also in Amok Time McCoy is one of Spock's "groomsmen". And this was at Spock's request. When T'Pau balks at McCoy and Kirk's presence, Spock calls them his friends. So I think the connection between McCoy and Spock is deeper than the OP thinks.

 

[Elder Knight]

Also in Amok Time McCoy is one of Spock's "groomsmen". And this was at Spock's request. When T'Pau balks at McCoy and Kirk's presence, Spock calls them his friends. So I think the connection between McCoy and Spock is deeper than the OP thinks.

Yep. After that, nothing McCoy said to Spock could bother me too much.

 

[Anwar]

Change all of McCoy's "Green-blooded son of a b****" stuff to "You dark skinned son of a n****!" and his attitude really gets disgusting.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

I must say I have always agreed with the sentiment the OP displays in the first post.

To me, as much as I like Bones [and DeForrest], I think McCoy is just deeply, deeply unprofessional far too often. There are multiple episodes where, upon Kirk's abscence, as soon as Spock assumes command he has to suffer a barrage of doubt, accusation, criticism and hysteria from McCoy.

Honestly, I think there are numerous episodes where Bones is nothing more than an unprofessional bitch. If I was Spock I would have reported him for his conduct.

For example, the episode where Kirk is missing on a planet and Spock has to try to decide whether to continue the search or follow a lead to another planet [where Kirk has been transported to] and the result is a hysterical McCoy, accusing him of trying to abandon Kirk and steal his command.

It really starts to grate on me at times. I know we all loves him, that Spock jibes back...but I really do feel a slight disliking of Bones and his catty, hysterical, bitchy behaviour.

 

[Nightdiamond]

^ If this episode is "The Tholian Web", then that's example I'm talking about too.

I recently saw it a week or two ago, and for some reason, I particularly noticed how McCoy kept throwing barbs at Spock.

Before that, whenever I watched it, I just assumed McCoy was 'just being McCoy', but when you pay attention to it, it was undeniably hostile.

When you watch these episodes with a 2000's sensibility, it does change your perception of it. In some ways it's actually better.

The episodes seem more intense than before.

Maybe this episode is what made the OP think of this thread.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That area of space makes people angry, irritable and violent:

MCCOY: It's getting critical. There have been a number of assaults down on the lower decks. Even Scotty's being affected. If Scotty goes under, that's the finish of whatever chance we have of getting the Enterprise out of here.
SPOCK: Please leave that to me, Doctor McCoy. I realise that the crew are your prime concern. You can best serve them in your laboratory. I urge you to confine yourself to it until a remedy has been found.
MCCOY: Spock! It must be this space. It's getting to me too. I know it's nothing you've done, Spock. I, I'm sorry.
SPOCK: I understand, Doctor. I'm sure the Captain would simply have said forget it, Bones.
(McCoy collapses as Scott enters.)

 

[Timewalker]

I always felt he went over the top. He flies off the handle a little too readily and the constant criticising of Spock being Vulcan and not emotional enough is definitely lacking in "evolved sensibilities". You can sorta forgive it in the original series but the fact is, it pretty much continued with the 90's shows too. They still did it.

The amount of times humans get angry with Vulcans because they don't exhibit enough emotion at certain events is immensely annoying. They're fucking Vulcans!!!

Watching Neelix and co mock Tuvok because he doesn't express emotions just feels like sanctioned bigotry. Mr Vulcan lol, you have black skin lol not like us with pink skin lol, you're different to us and therefore we will mock you lol. Why not try being more like us Mr Vulcan lol.

You must have watched some version of Voyager that nobody else did.

Yes, Neelix mocked Tuvok for his lack of emotional expression. We know that Neelix is an emotional, very openly expressive person, and apparently that's how many Talaxians are.

But NOBODY on Voyager ever mocked Tuvok for his skin color. Not once that I can recall.

Tuvok wasn't universally liked on Voyager, but he did serve as a mentor to some of the younger crew - Kes, who needed help with her psychic abilities; B'Elanna, who needed help controlling her temper; Tom, who wanted insight on what it was like to be a father; and Harry, who wanted help to think more with his mind and less with his emotions. Harry and Icheb learned to play Tuvok's favorite board game, and Seven and Tuvok were comfortable with one another as neither of them had any compulsion to engage in "small talk" or get sidetracked by irrelevancies.

Add all of this to the long friendship Tuvok and Janeway had, and it doesn't add up to bigotry - just one emotional person (Neelix) who was convinced that emotions and emotional expression were great morale boosters and couldn't fathom why Tuvok wouldn't at least try, and other crew who might not have liked Tuvok at first, but grew to respect him over the course of the series.

 

[hux]

But NOBODY on Voyager ever mocked Tuvok for his skin color. Not once that I can recall.

Erm, yeah obviously.

I was highlighting how the incessant mocking of his non-expression of emotion and his Vulcan culture is just as bigoted as it would be "if" they had been mocking him for his skin colour.

just one emotional person (Neelix) who was convinced that emotions and emotional expression were great morale boosters and couldn't fathom why Tuvok wouldn't at least try, and other crew who might not have liked Tuvok at first, but grew to respect him over the course of the series.

Exactly, he's an idiot but while he continues to be an idiot, the rest of the crew never choose to take him to one side and say.....

....Sorry Neelix but it's considered deeply bigoted and offensive for people to tell other races that how they choose to live or choose to be is in some way wrong and needs to change. Please try to refrain from doing this"...

Not only do these (diversity aware, federation educated) officers not do this but some of them actually actively enjoy laughing along as Neelix engages in his small minded witless banter with Tuvok.

 

[Chronos]

I always felt he went over the top. He flies off the handle a little too readily and the constant criticising of Spock being Vulcan and not emotional enough is definitely lacking in "evolved sensibilities". You can sorta forgive it in the original series but the fact is, it pretty much continued with the 90's shows too. They still did it.

The amount of times humans get angry with Vulcans because they don't exhibit enough emotion at certain events is immensely annoying. They're fucking Vulcans!!!

Watching Neelix and co mock Tuvok because he doesn't express emotions just feels like sanctioned bigotry. Mr Vulcan lol, you have black skin lol not like us with pink skin lol, you're different to us and therefore we will mock you lol. Why not try being more like us Mr Vulcan lol.

Spock and McCoy were supposed to be foils to one another. Calm logic paired with human emotions. Under it all, Spock and McCoy were friends who would poke fun at one another, but no real hard feeling were meant.

But you're right about Tuvok. If one joke had been made, I would have just taken it as a bit of teasing amongst crewmembers, but then they kept doing it. People whom Tuvok didn't really seem to like were really giving him a hard time. These people aren't his close friends. They're just colleagues who constantly tease him. I would understand if Janeway made the occasional playful jab, but Neelix didn't know Neelix well enough to do that.

 

[Mk_Sn]

I like McCoy, but he comes off as almost racist against Spock (maybe a bit of Paxton in him? :P) even calling him a "green blooded, son of a bitch" and saying they're annoying pests basically in the TNG pilot. Never got that.

 

[2takesfrakes]

When Bones was giving Spock grief in private, I could sort of accept. But, for instance, (mind you, I've not seen this episode in a while) when Kirok was kissing up Miramanee and the Enterprise crew didn't know if he was alive, or dead, Bones had no business unloading like he does. And he only does because it's Spock. He does the same shit in THE THOLIAN WEB.

Does Bones not have a rank? Is it just honourary? Did he receive any formal STARFLEET training? As an officer and as a friend, Bones is completely out of line pulling that shit on the bridge and his Medical superiority, in being the only one who can give the Captain an order is a very thin excuse, if it's one at all. I never cared for Bones' outbursts - it only served to make him seem unstable.

I know DC Fontana loved Bones as a character, believing he was ever-so "Human" but ... the writing sucked and Kelley was often unable to pull it off in a way that endeared him to me. Rarely, very rarely he'd pull that stunt with Kirk on the bridge, too. Like when there was that helmsman who was unready for his duties. And Kirk just tries to $ave face, instead of snapping Bones back, which is utter horseshit. Dr. McCoy was a bell's end, really, when you think about it ...

 

[Nerys Myk]

When Bones was giving Spock grief in private, I could sort of accept. But, for instance, (mind you, I've not seen this episode in a while) when Kirok was kissing up Miramanee and the Enterprise crew didn't know if he was alive, or dead, Bones had no business unloading like he does. And he only does because it's Spock. He does the same shit in THE THOLIAN WEB.

As I pointed out above Tholian space plays havoc with the brain.

As for the "Paradise Syndrome", a lot of McCoy and Spock's conversations take place in Spock's quarters not the bridge. Scannning through the transcript I'm not seeing anything outrageous by McCoy on the bridge.

Does Bones not have a rank? Is it just honourary? Did he receive any formal STARFLEET training? As an officer and as a friend, Bones is completely out of line pulling that shit on the bridge and his Medical superiority, in being the only one who can give the Captain an order is a very thin excuse, if it's one at all. I never cared for Bones' outbursts - it only served to make him seem unstable.

Looking at the transcript again I'm seeing McCoy acting as a doctor in his recommendations and comments.

 

[Nightdiamond]

That area of space makes people angry, irritable and violent:

MCCOY: It's getting critical. There have been a number of assaults down on the lower decks. Even Scotty's being affected. If Scotty goes under, that's the finish of whatever chance we have of getting the Enterprise out of here.
SPOCK: Please leave that to me, Doctor McCoy. I realise that the crew are your prime concern. You can best serve them in your laboratory. I urge you to confine yourself to it until a remedy has been found.
MCCOY: Spock! It must be this space. It's getting to me too. I know it's nothing you've done, Spock. I, I'm sorry.
SPOCK: I understand, Doctor. I'm sure the Captain would simply have said forget it, Bones.
(McCoy collapses as Scott enters.)

Good catch. OK that would explain the hostility, at least for that episode. Because otherwise McCoy looks downright insane almost.

But still, in other episodes, he comes off like he just doesn't like -- or dig Vulcans. I mean, he has some serious issues with that culture.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^As did Archer, who became close friends with T'Pol. That someone has issues with a particular culture does not that person a racist, nor does it preclude the possibility of that person forming friendships with members of said culture.

Another thing to keep in mind is that often times McCoy played bad-cop in order to motivate his friends; his actions weren't motivated by hatred or intolerance but by a desire to help his shipmates. He was usually more discrete when he confronted Kirk about his behavior (due to Kirk being the ship's CO) but wasn't at all shy about calling out his friend when the latter did something wrong (as in TMP, when Kirk flew the ship into a wormhole created by its malfunctioning warp engines).

--Sran

 

[Nightdiamond]

This is true, ultimately they are the closest of friends, the "big three", and there wasn't any nationalism or anything behind his comments.

Even that notorious episode where McCoy was accusing Spock of wanting Kirk out of the way so he could take his command, may have had a good explanation.

But there is that argument; just substitute "green blooded, pointy eared" for "this word" and would that be any different from a racist slur?

I think the reason for this is that fans are now probably watching TOS shows with a 2000's point of view, which gives you a totally different take than before.

It feels different than when you watched it over the previous years, (when you take certain scenes for granted) . It takes on a new dimension.

One reason I sort of like the bickering is because it made Spock, as an alien that expressed no emotion, interesting, because everyone always wanted or expected him to express the appropriate emotion, and he just wouldn't do it.

So that only frustrated them more. The later shows took it for granted, but they stuck with it on TOS.

 

[Mk_Sn]

This all just makes me miss Deforest Kelley's McCoy..