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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

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    192
Jayson1 said:
So your saying the show made by the brilliant Terry Matalas just happens to be coming out on my birthday which is October 24. GOD is real! He clearly loves me and has been following the goings-on of the Trekbbs. :)
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Hate to burst your bubble but it actually comes out October 14, per the article.
 
Didn't like One Last Kill at all.

Part of the issue is it's like half a story. You can tell Berenthal really wanted a feature-length, mid-budget movie, but they kept him on a short leash in terms of budget, so we get half a movie instead. There's just not enough connective tissue here to make the story work. It doesn't even use the time it had particularly well, spending way too much time in the opening act (if you can call it that) focusing on Frank's hallucinations and suicidal ideation.

I'm a bit confused about where this fits within the universe where Daredevil: Born Again exists. Under Kingpin, NYC seemed like a police state, but here, it seems like lawless anarchy which seems very anachronistic, given NYC hasn't looked anything like this in 30 years. I know - you kind of need this for The Punisher, but still, doesn't fit into the MCU canon any longer either.

The whole setup of Ma Gnucci setting a particular time for the entire neighborhood to go wild was dumb as shit. I guess I can buy that it's too much of a risk for her bodyguard to shoot him then and there, even with him unarmed. But why give him a warning? So the story can take place! Why does the whole neighborhood descend into general riots and mayhem! To create a spectacle!

But my biggest issue is just this - Frank starts the story wanting to die, and then he finds out assassins are coming for him. Okay, why does he fight back? I guess we're supposed to believe that he's being driven forward on the idea of vengeance/finishing the job by offing Ma Gnucci until he decides that no, he'll be a hero instead. The final turn worked, but the reason he was fighting back so hard? I just didn't get it.
 
eschaton said:
Didn't like One Last Kill at all.

Part of the issue is it's like half a story. You can tell Berenthal really wanted a feature-length, mid-budget movie, but they kept him on a short leash in terms of budget, so we get half a movie instead. There's just not enough connective tissue here to make the story work. It doesn't even use the time it had particularly well, spending way too much time in the opening act (if you can call it that) focusing on Frank's hallucinations and suicidal ideation.

I'm a bit confused about where this fits within the universe where Daredevil: Born Again exists. Under Kingpin, NYC seemed like a police state, but here, it seems like lawless anarchy which seems very anachronistic, given NYC hasn't looked anything like this in 30 years. I know - you kind of need this for The Punisher, but still, doesn't fit into the MCU canon any longer either.

The whole setup of Ma Gnucci setting a particular time for the entire neighborhood to go wild was dumb as shit. I guess I can buy that it's too much of a risk for her bodyguard to shoot him then and there, even with him unarmed. But why give him a warning? So the story can take place! Why does the whole neighborhood descend into general riots and mayhem! To create a spectacle!

But my biggest issue is just this - Frank starts the story wanting to die, and then he finds out assassins are coming for him. Okay, why does he fight back? I guess we're supposed to believe that he's being driven forward on the idea of vengeance/finishing the job by offing Ma Gnucci until he decides that no, he'll be a hero instead. The final turn worked, but the reason he was fighting back so hard? I just didn't get it.
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I agree with all of this, particularly the silly setups to make things happen.

However, I will point out that his motivation for fighting the assassins was initially driven by wanting to rescue the young boy who reminded him of his kids. For all of Frank's issues, he's always been driven by the need to protect the innocent, especially children. This is further emphasized at the end when he chose to rescue Royo's shopkeeper and his daughter, who reminds me him specifically of Frank's daughter. He chose to save over vengeance against Ma Gnucci.
 
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I liked it but it's starts off repetitive. This is like 3 times now we have seen Frank do that 'I can't be Punisher anymore because of my PTSD but then gets pulled back into being The Punisher. Also the baddie didn't get her comeuppance. Not so much as once bit of closure on the thing that started the plot.
 
"One Last Kill" reminded me of "Dirty Laundry", the Punisher fan film starring and produced by Thomas Jane after he didn't get the Punisher sequel that he desired. Not much in the way of story, just chaos and an excuse for Frank Castle to commit carnage.

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The Nth Doctor said:
I never watched that show so my first exposure to her was Law & Order: Special Victims Unit where she played a lawyer and then later on a judge, and she was a fiery bad ass.
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It is a very good 80s/early 90s sitcom but as it is with these shows light on acting demands and this is why Judith Light impressed me so much in her short scenes here. I know she did other projects since Boss and from what i hear she's very good but i haven't seen most of them so this was quite a treat for me.
 
Turtletrekker said:
"One Last Kill" reminded me of "Dirty Laundry", the Punisher fan film starring and produced by Thomas Jane after he didn't get the Punisher sequel that he desired. Not much in the way of story, just chaos and an excuse for Frank Castle to commit carnage.

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I couldn't help but think of that one too.
 
eschaton said:
But my biggest issue is just this - Frank starts the story wanting to die, and then he finds out assassins are coming for him. Okay, why does he fight back?
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I think it's pretty common for people with suicidal ideation to change their minds once their lives are actually in danger and their survival instincts kick in. I recently saw an interview where Ahmed Best talked about how the fan hatred of Jar-Jar Binks almost drove him to suicide, and he said that he was on the verge of jumping off a bridge when a gust of wind nearly pushed him off and he clung instinctively to the bridge and realized he wanted to live after all.

Or, given that we're talking about Frank Castle here, maybe he just thought that he wanted to die on his own terms instead of being a passive victim of the criminals he hates so much.
 
Christopher said:
I recently saw an interview where Ahmed Best talked about how the fan hatred of Jar-Jar Binks almost drove him to suicide, and he said that he was on the verge of jumping off a bridge when a gust of wind nearly pushed him off and he clung instinctively to the bridge and realized he wanted to live after all.
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Usually Billy Joel steps in at that point.
 
Christopher said:
I think it's pretty common for people with suicidal ideation to change their minds once their lives are actually in danger and their survival instincts kick in. I recently saw an interview where Ahmed Best talked about how the fan hatred of Jar-Jar Binks almost drove him to suicide, and he said that he was on the verge of jumping off a bridge when a gust of wind nearly pushed him off and he clung instinctively to the bridge and realized he wanted to live after all.

Or, given that we're talking about Frank Castle here, maybe he just thought that he wanted to die on his own terms instead of being a passive victim of the criminals he hates so much.
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That is because suicide is often a process and not something you do on a lark because your feeling bad. I know this from my own issues of wanting to kill myself is that you basically trying to build up the courage to do it. But you might also be having suicidal gestures because you want to someone to notice and help stop you from doing it.
 
eschaton said:
it seems like lawless anarchy which seems very anachronistic, given NYC hasn't looked anything like this in 30 years.
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I spent a good few hours in Long Island City watching the filming of Jessica Jones from my hotel window. The first thing they did was throw rubbish everywhere! 😂

On the actual show - I thought Marvel was committed to upping the quality on these things? That was hot garbage.
 
One Last Kill had its moments, but it was kinda meh and I'm a bit disappopinted. It was good to see Bubbles again. Seems he gtfo of Baltimore like Rhonda Pearlman over in Daredevil and they've both moved up in the world. Good for them! I wonder if Pearlman and Daniels are still together? Otherwise, it really needed to be longer and have more story to it. It did feel like a long trailer for something else. NYC going back in time to the 70s-80s kinda took me out of it too.
 
Booji said:
One Last Kill had its moments, but it was kinda meh and I'm a bit disappopinted. It was good to see Bubbles again. Seems he gtfo of Baltimore like Rhonda Pearlman over in Daredevil and they've both moved up in the world. Good for them! I wonder if Pearlman and Daniels are still together?
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Took me until the finale to finally realize that was Deidre Lovejoy. I kept thinking "That looks like Deidre Lovejoy" but I kept forgetting to check to see if that was actually her. :lol:
 
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I wasn't very impressed by One Last Kill either. Half of its meagre 44 minute runtime is spent retreading stuff that the Netflix show already did better. It felt like they were trying to reintroduce Castle to viewers, but why? I think everyone watching this knows the Punisher's backstory by now. He showed up in Born Again and fit in just fine without a twenty minute segment of him remembering his family and hallucinating.

Ma Gnucci's actress was good in her one speaking scene. The fight scene had a few satisfying violent moments, but it was hurt by it just being Frank fighting random mooks for most of it. Like imagine if the last guy he fought had been built up as a threat throughout the episode instead of just being some generic tough guy. And as noted by @eschaton above, the amount of violence going on in the background was absolutely ridiculous. It felt like he was walking through a video game rather than New York (not that I've ever been...but I assume it isn't like THAT.)

I'm sure I read that this was supposed to be taking place during the events of Born Again season 2, but Frank was just walking around in broad daylight with his face exposed and the AVTF never showed up, so I assume that's wrong...
 
I think I'm finally going to break my completist streak and just not watch the Punisher special. I thought season 1 handled it reasonably well, without glorifying the violence and giving Castle a suitable resolution, but I felt season 2 undid that gratuitously and did indulge in the violence for its own sake. (And I'm still mad at it for luring Floriana Lima away from her regular gig on Supergirl but giving her a far less interesting character.) After I finished season 2, I wished I'd skipped it. And this sounds even less appealing.
 
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