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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  • Total voters
    188
Set Harth said:
He sees "his" future, not Coulson's. The show presents zero evidence to support either position regarding AOS's canonicity.
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Correct. And Coulson's resurrection does nothing to affect the conversation between Mobius and Loki. Coulson being technobabbled back to life does nothing to affect the fact that Loki murdered him in cold blood on the helicarrier, nor does it let him off the hook for his actions.
 
JD said:
OK, so I decided to look for myself, and I found this Screen Rant article and an article from Looper that both reference the MCU timeline book, which doesn't include anything from AOS, but according to the Screen Rant article there is a note from Kevin Feige where he says that there are canonical movies and series that are not included in the book because they don't take place in the Sacred Timeline. So this doesn't totally rule out AoS being canon, it just means it doesn't take place on Earth 616.
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I can see that but I can also see it as a timeline that was exactly like Earth 616 until maybe the final two seasons. So all the adventures we saw on the show also happened exactly like we saw them happen, also on Earth 616. The divergent point would likely be Earth being destroyed and some of the characters travelling to and back from the future.
 
I find it weird to declare the whole of AoS non-canon based on a producer of a different MCU show noting contradictions. As if contradictions never happened before in these big SF universes.
I mean, "Heart of Glory" is not declared non-canon just because the Klingon ship has a Federation insignia on its bridge, "Samaritan Snare" is not declared non-canon because Wesley mentions the Klingons joining the Federation as a part of history. People either ignore these things or create fan-theories about how it actually fits with the rest of canon.

So, unless Feige himself comes straight out saying AoS is non-canon, or the whole of the show is directly contradicted without possibilities to work around it? It is still officially canon. If you don't want it to count, that's your own head-canon.
 
Kai the spy said:
I find it weird to declare the whole of AoS non-canon based on a producer of a different MCU show noting contradictions. As if contradictions never happened before in these big SF universes.
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And of course, different producers can make different choices, or the same ones can change their minds. Daredevil: Born Again was reputedly originally meant to be in a distinct continuity from the Netflix series, but they made it a direct sequel in the reshoots.
 
Turtletrekker said:
And the X-Men timeline? All the various Spider timelines? Why would TVA have allowed them to exist? What is it specifically about the AOS timeline that marks it for oblivion above all the others?
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The contention from those who insist that AoS is already Canon is that it is Canon to the Sacred Timeline even though Loki Episode 1 indicates otherwise.

Even if one wants to believe that Loki Episode isn't definitive proof in and of itself against the AoS is Sacred,Timeline Canon argument, one has to still explain how/why Coulson's resurrection isn't a massive violation of the TVA's protocols whilst 2012 Loki stealing the Tesseract is, which is not something thar,I've ever seen.

Also, unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure that, prior to the events of Loki, the TVA only monitored the Sacred Timeline as per He Who Remains' narrow focus, which is why they wouldn't have involved themselves in the affairs of other Universes and said Universes' timelines.
 
There is nothing in Loki season one -- nothing-- that specifically discounts the possibility of Agents of SHIELD. All that is stated in Loki season one is that Loki killed Phil Coulson, which nobody is disputing. The fact that he may or may not have been technobabled back to life three days later does nothing to alter that fact, nor would it absolve Loki of any of the guilt of the crime he committed.
 
I have no particular view on this debate one way or the other but had the dialogue in Loki then included “oh by the way, Coulson was resurrected a few days later, thanks to Nick Fury”, it would not only have confused a great deal of the audience but would’ve undermined the character arc for this Loki variant.
 
Turtletrekker said:
All that is stated in Loki season one is that Loki killed Phil Coulson, which nobody is disputing. The fact that he may or may not have been technobabled back to life three days later does nothing to alter that fact, nor would it absolve Loki of any of the guilt of the crime he committed.
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You're quite correct, according to the Law and the Multiverse blog.
There’s another potential wrinkle in here: what if someone is convicted for murder and then the victim comes back to life?

Actually, this one is could be pretty straightforward: if the victim was actually dead at some point, i.e. he really was dead, he wasn’t simply missing or presumed dead, then the elements of the crime are still complete. The defendant did, in fact, kill the victim. Whether or not the victim stays dead is not actually an element of any homicide offense. So it would seem that this is ultimately irrelevant, which is perhaps a little counter-intuitive but does have the benefit of simplifying things a lot. As courts tend to like rulings which alleviate the burden on their dockets, this is not an unlikely outcome.
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Jayson1 said:
AOS Truthers? Fandom names are getting wild these days.
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dancing-shaking.gif
 
It's established that, pre-Loki (the series), the TVA pruned any deviations from the Sacred Timeline as per He Who Remains' edicts.

Coulson's resurrection would, by the TVA's rules, be a deviation from the Sacred Timeline and therefore subject to being pruned.
 
But post He Who Remains the multiverse is fully restored, unless you're saying that every single one of the threads going through The Loom that Loki now controls had their beginnings post-Endgame. This is clearly not the case. Because all of the X -Men and Spider related timelines would have had their beginnings prior to that time, and they all still existed post Endgame. Not to mention most of the realities that we saw in What If? having their beginnings pre-Endgame. According to the official timeline, which is different from the disney plus timeline, and more or less agrees with you about the placement of Ironheart, places the viewing of what if seasons two and three after Loki season two.

The way I see it, all of those other timelines weren't destroyed when pruned, just suppressed at the source and post He Who Remain influence, the threads just started growing again, right where they left off.

www.marvel.com

See the Complete MCU Timeline on Disney+ | Marvel

Here’s your complete viewing guide for all the Marvel Cinematic Universe movies and series on Disney+.
www.marvel.com www.marvel.com

But @Mage is right, this is a tangent that has far far outgrown its purpose and is now just going in reptitive circles that have been covered in this thread countless times before, so this is the last I will say on the subject here.
 
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