Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Christopher]

To me, the central issue with the movie was not the slop CGI, or even the dialogue. It was that Scott being the protagonist of the movie felt a bit...random. Like Marvel Studios had a dartboard, and decided that they needed another Ant-Man movie and a Kang introduction, so they just put them in the same movie.

That's just the sort of thing that happens in ongoing franchises sometimes, when the timings of things align in certain ways. It's no weirder than Darkseid and the New Gods making their debut in Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen.

The best villains are a dark mirror of some aspect of the hero, riffing off of them in some aspect thematically, or else have personal history with the hero. Kang has essentially no relation to Scott except he happened to be the Avenger that showed up.

But that's why it was relevant to Scott's character arc. The story was about Scott struggling with his reputation as a major hero and questioning whether he was worthy of it, so pitting him against a villain who considered him inconsequential was the way to illustrate that.

Also, people tend to overlook that the film wasn't called Scott Lang, it was called Ant-Man and the Wasp -- and there are two people each that use those championyms. The movie was as much about Janet and Hank as it was about Scott, and Kang was critical to Janet and Hank's story because he was the reason Janet stayed lost in the Quantum Realm for so long, a threat so great that she chose to strand herself there in order to keep him contained.

Adding to this, Scott had no character arc to speak of in the movie.

Because, again, it wasn't exclusively his movie. He had two whole movies centered on him. The advantage of a series is that you can choose different focuses in different installments. This was Hank and Janet's turn in the spotlight.

What this is all very similar to is Captain America: Brave New World. There is no reasonable argument why Sam Wilson should have had the starring role in an Incredible Hulk sequel. Okay, I realize Universal may have been upset if Bruce Banner was in here, but...maybe don't make a Hulk sequel then?

Well, yeah, it was a sequel to TIH, but it was a sequel that focused on Thaddeus Ross, and Ross was a member of the government, so it made sense that a story about him becoming Red Hulk would involve Captain America.

I don't find much similarity between the two films. Quantumania was about introducing new characters and elements into the MCU. The flaw with CA:BNW is that it felt too much like it was just tying up various loose ends from earlier movies.

 

[DigificWriter]

You forgot Love and Thunder.

I said best, not worst.

 

[theenglish]

I said best, not worst.

I guess I misunderstood your post.

 

[DigificWriter]

I stumbled upon something that is going to bug me until/unless I post about it, so I'm posting about it.

The official timeline placement for Secret Invasion is screwed up. Apparently, it's supposed to take place in 2026, but it literally can't because its events have to take place before the events of The Marvels, which immediately follow the events of Ms. Marvel (which is set in the Fall of 2025).

Because Secret Invasion literally cannot take place when the official timeline says that it does, everything that is subsequent to its events gets thrown off by the discrepancy.

Note: this is not an invitation to 'dunk' on Secret Invasion qualitatively; it's an invitation to talk about the apparent continuity discrepancy of when it's said to be set relative to when it has to actually be set and how said discrepancy can be reconciled.

 

[Jayson1]

I stumbled upon something that is going to bug me until/unless I post about it, so I'm posting about it.

The official timeline placement for Secret Invasion is screwed up. Apparently, it's supposed to take place in 2026, but it literally can't because its events have to take place before the events of The Marvels, which immediately follow the events of Ms. Marvel (which is set in the Fall of 2025).

Because Secret Invasion literally cannot take place when the official timeline says that it does, everything that is subsequent to its events gets thrown off by the discrepancy.

Note: this is not an invitation to 'dunk' on Secret Invasion qualitatively; it's an invitation to talk about the apparent continuity discrepancy of when it's said to be set relative to when it has to actually be set and how said discrepancy can be reconciled.

Why can't Secret Invasion happen after The Marvels? Also what if Nick Fury in The Marvels is a Skrull. Real sad Fury is still with the other Skrulls on their ship after the invents of Secret Invasion?

 

[eschaton]

I stumbled upon something that is going to bug me until/unless I post about it, so I'm posting about it.

The official timeline placement for Secret Invasion is screwed up. Apparently, it's supposed to take place in 2026, but it literally can't because its events have to take place before the events of The Marvels, which immediately follow the events of Ms. Marvel (which is set in the Fall of 2025).

Because Secret Invasion literally cannot take place when the official timeline says that it does, everything that is subsequent to its events gets thrown off by the discrepancy.

Note: this is not an invitation to 'dunk' on Secret Invasion qualitatively; it's an invitation to talk about the apparent continuity discrepancy of when it's said to be set relative to when it has to actually be set and how said discrepancy can be reconciled.

I might be missing something, but considering The Marvels utterly ignored the events of Secret Invasion, wouldn't putting it afterwards result in fewer continuity issues?

Obviously, it has to occur before BNW anf Thunderbolts, due to electoral cycles, but otherwise, I don't see how it matters.

 

[Christopher]

I might be missing something, but considering The Marvels utterly ignored the events of Secret Invasion, wouldn't putting it afterwards result in fewer continuity issues?

No, because Secret Invasion claims that Nick Fury failed to find the Skrull a new homeworld, but The Marvels shows the Skrull on their new homeworld. So the only way it could be reconciled is if SI came first and a new homeworld was found between the two, but the timing would have to be really tight.

I think we'd all be better off if Marvel just declared Secret Invasion a "What If...?" series or something.

 

[oktay]

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[The Nth Doctor]

No, because Secret Invasion claims that Nick Fury failed to find the Skrull a new homeworld, but The Marvels shows the Skrull on their new homeworld. So the only way it could be reconciled is if SI came first and a new homeworld was found between the two, but the timing would have to be really tight.

I think we'd all be better off if Marvel just declared Secret Invasion a "What If...?" series or something.

Precisely this.

While I appreciate the sentiment of trying to avoid dunking on the series while trying to reconcile this error, the fact that I found the show to be so abysmal with only a few redeeming qualities means I have zero interest in trying to find a solution. Especially since that issue is far from the only contradicting problem the series created. Instead, I find it much easier to just ignore the series entirely, which is saying a lot considering how much I defend most of the MCU.

 

[eschaton]

No, because Secret Invasion claims that Nick Fury failed to find the Skrull a new homeworld, but The Marvels shows the Skrull on their new homeworld. So the only way it could be reconciled is if SI came first and a new homeworld was found between the two, but the timing would have to be really tight.

I think we'd all be better off if Marvel just declared Secret Invasion a "What If...?" series or something.

Ahh. My recollection was Tarnax was just a colony with some Skrulls on it, not the new Skrull homeworld.

Aligning the MCU canon presidents to real world terms also makes little sense, come to think of it. I can excuse Bucky since it might be a special election, but how does Ross become elected president in 2026?

 

[Christopher]

Ahh. My recollection was Tarnax was just a colony with some Skrulls on it, not the new Skrull homeworld.

If it's a world that Skrulls can live on, I see no reason it couldn't be the new Skrull homeworld. They wouldn't have been picky.

Aligning the MCU canon presidents to real world terms also makes little sense, come to think of it. I can excuse Bucky since it might be a special election, but how does Ross become elected president in 2026?

Maybe it's in the same universe as The West Wing, where the election cycle was also two years off from reality.

(Which would fit with the fan theory that the Secret Service agent Clark Gregg played in TWW was Coulson undercover.)

 

[Turtletrekker]

Ahh. My recollection was Tarnax was just a colony with some Skrulls on it, not the new Skrull homeworld.

Aligning the MCU canon presidents to real world terms also makes little sense, come to think of it. I can excuse Bucky since it might be a special election, but how does Ross become elected president in 2026?

My head canon is that post-blip, which took place in early 2018 and no doubt wiped out a minimum of 50% of the government, special elections were held In late 2018 to compensate.