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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
- Start date
It seems like no one wanted to see anything that didn't have a white male lead, unless the character was a male with the word "black" in his name.
maybe the quality of the stories and productions played a role? Lots of movies with white dudes suck, too. (Aquaman 2, The Flash, etc.) Putting a woman or person of color in it doesn't automatically make it good, nor does putting a a white guy in it. I think there are correlations being made that have nothing to do with anything.
Some of them were not as good as others, but the same is true for a lot of the white guy movies. And his selection was not based on how well the movies did at the box office.
The reason why so many of the movies have failed are not about race or gender. Quantumania failed because it took the Ant Man character and put him in a movie that does not lend itself to the things people want to see in a Ant-Man movie. People want to see Ant Man being small or big in a real life relatable setting and for sure don't want Ant-Man to be anything more than escapism. Bad place to setup your new big bad. The Marvels failed because people don't like the Ms Marvel character and don't know the other two.
Eternals failed because nobody knows the characters and unlike Guardians you don't have someone like Gunn making the movie and the movie gave off the vibe it was going to be slow,pretentious and new agey where the Guardians move was basically selling itself as Buck Rogers or Farscape and it was going to be wild and crazy and fun. Love and Thunder came out when Marvel fatigue was just starting to kick in. Plus bad word of mouth. Finally Brave New World was a Captain America movie without the Captain America people love. Instead it starred his sidekick.
Disney has made some bad choices not just in execution but also the things they have selected to make. Not to mention putting to much stuff out their to fill out it's streaming service. They have nobody really to blame but themselves. Now it's time to see if they can fix the problem or not. Odds are it will become more hit and miss and not as consistently successful as it used to be. But now and then they will still have a big hit. The next Spiderman movie for sure will be successful. As will the Avengers movies if for no other reason than people want to go see Robert Downey Jr again in a MCU movie. Black Panther 3 will be huge depending on who they cast as the new Black Panther.
Eternals failed because nobody knows the characters and unlike Guardians you don't have someone like Gunn making the movie and the movie gave off the vibe it was going to be slow,pretentious and new agey where the Guardians move was basically selling itself as Buck Rogers or Farscape and it was going to be wild and crazy and fun. Love and Thunder came out when Marvel fatigue was just starting to kick in. Plus bad word of mouth. Finally Brave New World was a Captain America movie without the Captain America people love. Instead it starred his sidekick.
Disney has made some bad choices not just in execution but also the things they have selected to make. Not to mention putting to much stuff out their to fill out it's streaming service. They have nobody really to blame but themselves. Now it's time to see if they can fix the problem or not. Odds are it will become more hit and miss and not as consistently successful as it used to be. But now and then they will still have a big hit. The next Spiderman movie for sure will be successful. As will the Avengers movies if for no other reason than people want to go see Robert Downey Jr again in a MCU movie. Black Panther 3 will be huge depending on who they cast as the new Black Panther.
I don't disagree with what you've said. People didn't stop going to see Marvel movies until after Quantumania. And even then there was GOTGIII which was a hit. The drop really started with The Marvels, but I don't think it had anything to do with quality--people just wanted something else.
My original point was that 1701 pointed to movies that had non-white male protagonists as being the reason people stopped going to Marvel movies and I don't think that's the case.
My original point was that 1701 pointed to movies that had non-white male protagonists as being the reason people stopped going to Marvel movies and I don't think that's the case.
I don't think it is either. But I do understand why he probably thinks that. Deadpool,Spiderman 4,Gaurdians 3, which star white guys all were huge hits. I do wonder how the modern climate has changed the old rules on these things. Use to be even racist would enjoy movies not starring white guys. It's harder to figure out what motivates anyone anymore these days. Not to mention young people are just gravitating more and more to the internet over movies and tv shows.
I think the big issue though is we lost the actor who played Black Panther, they waited to long to do the Black Widow movie and they can't seem to make a Blade movie which I would think would be easy as heck to make. Also as much as I love Wandavsion a Wanda movie would have been huge as well. I also think the delay on X-Men has to also factored into this. It seems to be all Marvels most iconic and beloved characters who are not just white guys are associated with the X-Men brand.
I think the big issue though is we lost the actor who played Black Panther, they waited to long to do the Black Widow movie and they can't seem to make a Blade movie which I would think would be easy as heck to make. Also as much as I love Wandavsion a Wanda movie would have been huge as well. I also think the delay on X-Men has to also factored into this. It seems to be all Marvels most iconic and beloved characters who are not just white guys are associated with the X-Men brand.
I'm trying to figure out why you said both these things that seem to directly contradict each other. The former statement is obviously bogus (for one thing, it overlooks that Captain Marvel did quite well), and the latter statement appears to be debunking the former (as well it should).
Captain Marvel was a success because of timing and the MCU was hot then and could do no wrong. The Marvels is probably a more accurate reflection on what people think of the character. It doesn't help that movie was not very good. I enjoyed all the actions scenes in the movie but the rest was just not that interesting and frankly they should have had more fun with it's 90's setting.
Captain Marvel was a solid origin film, establishing the lead well enough that a proper sequel focused on her was rightfully expected...yet that did not happen, and even Larson was not particularly happy with choices made for the sequel.
Pretty much.
Any dedicated followers of the MCU--well, the rational MCU followers accepted Evans deciding to leave the role in Endgame, which simultaneously passed the Cap I.D. to Mackie's Wilson. This was not a surprise casting change dropped on audiences, but an evolution of the Cap end of the MCU set up for some time and officially settled in the D+ series. That said, anyone still having issues with Wilson as Captain America only reveal their true problem, the kind so often spewed on YouTube channels such as Nerdrotic, The Critical Drinker, Geeks and Gamers, Ryan Kinel, The Quartering, Heels vs Babyface and platforms hosted by illiterate, wannabe anarchists such as Charlie Kirk and Tim Pool. In other words, if Captain America does not fit their unironically Third Reich-esque idea of the blond ubermensch draped in the American flag (a Marvel internal problem addressed in Cap comics of the 60s and 70s, but completely ignored by the types cited here), then "there is no Captain America" and "...this is not what WE want to see".
Ever the historically proven act of self destruction in the film entertainment business: quantity over quality, and the #1 culprit of that in the superhero movie genre is the MCU. As many MCU entries from film, network TV and streaming exist, the majority were/are not great, memorable productions. They were and are just more assembly line product with little creative value, rather than what it should have been: a tight number of films which poured the best of the source (with some expected changes for film), which does not walk in lockstep with 25-film/TV arcs and set-ups for endless spin-offs.
A few films with a running plot (e.g. the aforementioned Cap considering his place in life / passing on the Cap I.D. to Wilson) were fine, but that's the outlier approach in the soap-opera-esque, "everything everywhere is connected to the Big One" handling of the MCU.
Obviously.
Probably the case.
We will see.
If there's merit to your theory, it would have more to do with certain, irrational members of the MCU / moviegoing audience still thinking Dr. Doom will have anything to do with a dead character, instead of accepting a long-lived Marvel antagonist as he was meant to be.
WandaVision was great, wtf are you talking about
Thunderbolts should have been a teamup of a Chitauri, Extremis Soldier, Hammer Drone, an Ultron bot, a Dark Elf, a Sakaaran, and an Outrider.
This seems to claim that all these people are in Fountain of Youth, but this is the cast of The Gallerist.
Someone check the weather report in Hell…we agree on something!
WandaVision was wonderful.
And I will add, Agatha All Along was a great follow-up. One of my top Marvel TV shows.
...I was about to say, Iman Vellani's Ms. Marvel was easily one of the best parts of that film. She's hard not to like. But I'm guessing you're referring to Brie Larson's Captain Marvel instead. It also didn't help that the writers/actors strike happened right before that release, making it impossible to do the usual press buildup.
Plus it was also clearly a stealth sequel to The Incredible Hulk without the Hulk (I'm guessing thanks to Universal).
AFAICT, ''WandaVision'' has received nearly unanimous JK Simmons/Christoph Waltz-level acclaim.
No, they just didn't want to tell stories about the same group of characters forever. That's lazy.
Thor 4 was better than Thors 1 and 2
They were both fine, certain folks just had silly ideas about Dr Strange 2 like how it would guest star Hugh Jackman and have Strange merge the MCU with the FoX-men universe. That nonsense was never happening.
She wasn't a "favorite" until WandaVision, so you're wrong right off the bat.
She got a "proper" sequel as much as Steve did.
She-Hulk's comics rarely if every have anything to do with Court Room Dramas, if you read them.
So just like they jammed the Punisher into Daredevil Season 2 so they got give him a substandard show later?
I love how fickle and disloyal you are
Avengers will do well without the gutless fanservice.
No they didn't, they said Widow was a useless forced character in IM2.
They watched it, yes.
Yes, they did. But the strike meant the Marvels didn't get any promotions and barely any marketing, which is why it was vindicated later on streaming which was advertised better
In the works.
Internal restructuring.
They did, it just didn't get good reviews.
It doesn't help that the "fans" were against all the women getting bigger roles in the first place.
They stopped focusing on Forced White Male Supremacy, that angered certain people.
So you didn't actually watch those shows, got it.
Because they want a PG rated Blade Project and Ali didn't like any of their ideas so kept stalling the project.
That's an urban legend, Disney usually got around 60-65% of the cut and Theaters get less. It's never been a "2-2.5x" multiplier for them.
That's not how it works for the bigger studios.
"Certain folks" had "silly ideas" like the Mordo scene at the end of Strange 1 actually leading to something, imagine that!
I'm sure they'd have gotten back to him more directly, if not for the directives to do those other shows and movies about entirely new characters hadn't taken priority