Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Christopher]

I explicitly stated the non-white males or women got the worst scripts from Marvel itself, and that's why they lost viewers.

I really don't understand why people think The Marvels or Wakanda Forever were bad. The Marvels underperformed because of the strike and the lack of advance publicity, not because of the story. It was actually quite a good movie that got a bum rap, and I gather it's performed well on streaming.

And I've argued extensively in the past about why Riri was not "tacked on" to WF but was absolutely the right character to motivate the story, and quite an appealing presence as well. (I've been quite pleased with all the female "Young Avengers" they've introduced -- Kamala, Kate, Cassie, America, and Riri have all been delightful.) If WF had any problems, it was due to the need to adjust to the loss of Chadwick Boseman, and that couldn't have been helped.

In fact, I think your thesis here is completely wrong -- the films I've liked least in the past two phases have been Multiverse of Madness and Deadpool and Wolverine, both of which had white male leads. (Although I'm not convinced D&W really counts as an MCU film -- it's more of a Fox-Marvel Universe film that ties into the MCU while remaining tangential to it.) I also thought Thor: Love and Thunder, while better than Ragnarok, was just kind of middle-of-the-road. As for television, the biggest disappointment has been Secret Invasion, but I thought Loki Season 2 was a mess, so that splits the difference.

 

[theenglish]

Resorting to lying now, are you? Where the fuck did I say that?
I explicitly stated the non-white males or women got the worst scripts from Marvel itself, and that's why they lost viewers.

EDIT: just for you if you missed it

What I said in reply to your post was this:

" It seems like no one wanted to see anything that didn't have a white male lead, unless the character was a male with the word "black" in his name."

I wasn't saying that you made any other editorial comments.

For reference, the specific piece of your post I was reacting to was this:

"Marvel fatigue" happens when old and new fans get fed up by being fed characters that not many people wanted to see - Ms Marvel, She-Hulk, Riri Williams, Shuri, Echo, Captain Falcon, etc.

 

[Jayson1]

They should have done a Captain Marvel movie where she goes bad, dark phoenix style for whatever reason, she's so powerful no one can stop her, intro: the X-Men, Rogue takes her down and saps her powers, its kind of like the comic books, it would attract all sorts of people whether they liked or disliked the character, and not taken a decade to introduce the X-Men. Definitely would have been better than The Marvels.

The biggest problem is that none of the movies after Endgame are building to anything or have any cohesive structure. They just..... exist.

Some of the movies made decent box office, but were still DISLIKED by the people who saw them, and then... they stopped paying to see more. Good box office doesn't mean squat.

To think any of it has to do with ethnicity or gender is very shallow thinking. Write good characters, make good movies. We don't care who stars in them if they are good.

I think the bigger issue is people just don't like Brie Lawson in the role. Some of it because of the actor but that wouldn't effect the casual fans who didn't show up for the sequel or even regular fans because GOD knows people have a long history of ignoring things about actors they don't like if they still love the characters they play. You can see in the second movie a effort to even lighten her up and make the character more likeable but it was to little to late by then. I also think Lawson is sort of like Portman in that she doesn't really like doing comic book stuff and would rather be doing serious stuff like 'The Room" that won her awards.

 

[Jayson1]

I really don't understand why people think The Marvels or Wakanda Forever were bad. The Marvels underperformed because of the strike and the lack of advance publicity, not because of the story. It was actually quite a good movie that got a bum rap, and I gather it's performed well on streaming.

And I've argued extensively in the past about why Riri was not "tacked on" to WF but was absolutely the right character to motivate the story, and quite an appealing presence as well. (I've been quite pleased with all the female "Young Avengers" they've introduced -- Kamala, Kate, Cassie, America, and Riri have all been delightful.) If WF had any problems, it was due to the need to adjust to the loss of Chadwick Boseman, and that couldn't have been helped.

In fact, I think your thesis here is completely wrong -- the films I've liked least in the past two phases have been Multiverse of Madness and Deadpool and Wolverine, both of which had white male leads. (Although I'm not convinced D&W really counts as an MCU film -- it's more of a Fox-Marvel Universe film that ties into the MCU while remaining tangential to it.) I also thought Thor: Love and Thunder, while better than Ragnarok, was just kind of middle-of-the-road. As for television, the biggest disappointment has been Secret Invasion, but I thought Loki Season 2 was a mess, so that splits the difference.

The Marvels only had one interesting character in MS Marvel and a especially bad villain. Plus I got a theory fans are getting tired of MCU stuff in space and want a return to the more grounded setting of Earth. Wakanda Forever is not bad. Just mediocre. Boseman and Jordan's absence is very much felt.

 

[Phoenix219]

I think the bigger issue is people just don't like Brie Lawson in the role. Some of it because of the actor but that wouldn't effect the casual fans who didn't show up for the sequel or even regular fans because GOD knows people have a long history of ignoring things about actors they don't like if they still love the characters they play. You can see in the second movie a effort to even lighten her up and make the character more likeable but it was to little to late by then. I also think Lawson is sort of like Portman in that she doesn't really like doing comic book stuff and would rather be doing serious stuff like 'The Room" that won her awards.

Thats why my idea could play up to the people that didn't like her AND the people that did. She could be very unlikeable, and already had people referring to her as The Annihilator in the existing movie. They could / could have played into that, and let her beat on a bunch of heroes, before Rogue gets her hands on her and puts her in the coma. You get a Rogue origin story, launch the X-Men, still get to show how bad ass Captain Marvel could have been and how super charged she was, and appeal to everyone at once. .