Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Reverend]

I can't point to any evidence of any kind and I don't even know which project might be a candidate, but my gut feeling here is that we are going to see the F4's origin story in someone else's project. It will probably be a direct result of the team somehow getting involved as civilians in the main plot of that film/show and their solo film will build from that.

Yeah, as I said at the top of the page; there's already an established precedent with that in both Spider-Man and Black Panther. Hell, both Black Widow and Hawkeye existed only as guest characters in other people's movies for over a decade before finally getting their own solo projects, and Hulk has been camping out with The Avengers, Thor, and now his cousin ever since whatever deal they had with Universal folded.
I see no reason why the F4 cast can't have a similar introduction. 'The Marvels' seems like the most likely candidate, both because it'll be coming out not long before F4 if the schedule holds (more or less) and that franchise already has a thing for space planes and cosmic energies.

And before anyone cries foul; major characters (heroes, villains, and anti-heroes alike) having their first appearance, or even first major story as a guest character in some other book is a tradition that goes back all the way to the golden age.

 

[YLu]

Wow, way to take the comparison way too literally. Obviously I was not saying they should do it exactly the same way as FF #1. I was saying that the FF's origin story has never been the most important or interesting thing about them.

Not important to Sue and Johnny, but important to Reed and especially Ben, I'd say. Maybe not in F4 #1, but plenty of important elements accumulate onto a character over time, which was my point mentioning Ben's register and the costumes. (And yes, you could take care of it with exposition, but it would lack the same punch as actually seeing Reed's hubris curse Ben to his fate.)

 

[Christopher]

important to Reed and especially Ben, I'd say.

Of course, but as I already said, you can establish that character motivation without devoting yet another entire movie to the origin story.

 

[YLu]

Of course, but as I already said, you can establish that character motivation without devoting yet another entire movie to the origin story.

I pointed out that they even found a way to make Spidey being a tech bro work, unlikely as that was, so I'm not arguing it's actually *impossible* to find a way to make it work. But I don't see them going that way, for the reasons I stated.

And to clarify, I'm not saying they'll devote the "entire movie" to the origin, which I also find unlikely and wrongheaded. But like a ten minute scene, followed by a flash forward or montage sequence to the team being established? Or doing a non-chronological film where it's depicted part way through, like in Eternals? Yeah.

 

[Christopher]

And to clarify, I'm not saying they'll devote the "entire movie" to the origin, which I also find unlikely and wrongheaded. But like a ten minute scene, followed by a flash forward or montage sequence to the team being established? Or doing a non-chronological film where it's depicted part way through, like in Eternals? Yeah.

Except that, as I already pointed out, the MCU (not counting Marvel Television) has only given origin stories to characters who have not already had their origin stories told cinematically in the 21st century. They relegated the Hulk's origin to a brief main-title montage, and they've barely mentioned Spider-Man's origin. They don't want to repeat what's already been done.

I still think there's a strong chance that the FF will be established as supporting characters in an earlier movie or two before their solo adventure, as was done with Spider-Man and Black Panther. Phase 4 has been doing a lot of that sort of thing, setting up Monica Rambeau in WandaVision, US Agent and the Contessa in Falcon/Winter Soldier, Kate Bishop in Hawkeye, and America Chavez in Strange 2. And I suspect they'll give the FF a new origin, since trying to get into space is no big deal when you've already got Nick Fury hanging out on a Skrull starship. I'd bet that Reed's experiment will instead have something to do with the Quantum Realm, the multiverse, or whatever cosmic powers are behind the Ten Rings and/or Ms. Marvel's bangle. After all, everything's interconnected these days. So you might see their origin happening as a side effect of the events of one of the Phase 5 movies, and then their solo movie will feature an adventure where they're already established.

 

[YLu]

Except that, as I already pointed out, the MCU (not counting Marvel Television) has only given origin stories to characters who have not already had their origin stories told cinematically in the 21st century. They relegated the Hulk's origin to a brief main-title montage, and they've barely mentioned Spider-Man's origin. They don't want to repeat what's already been done.

INCREDIBLE HULK came out five years after the previous movie. HOMECOMING came out just 3 years after ASM 2. It'll be 9 years since the Trank film when the new Fantastic Four film comes out. And the Trank film was an absolute disaster that barely anyone saw.

I still think there's a strong chance that the FF will be established as supporting characters in an earlier movie or two before their solo adventure, as was done with Spider-Man and Black Panther. Phase 4 has been doing a lot of that sort of thing, setting up Monica Rambeau in WandaVision, US Agent and the Contessa in Falcon/Winter Soldier, Kate Bishop in Hawkeye, and America Chavez in Strange 2. And I suspect they'll give the FF a new origin, since trying to get into space is no big deal when you've already got Nick Fury hanging out on a Skrull starship. I'd bet that Reed's experiment will instead have something to do with the Quantum Realm, the multiverse, or whatever cosmic powers are behind the Ten Rings and/or Ms. Marvel's bangle. After all, everything's interconnected these days. So you might see their origin happening as a side effect of the events of one of the Phase 5 movies, and then their solo movie will feature an adventure where they're already established.

I do agree that it might be a prior film that shows the origin, instead of the FANTASTIC FOUR film itself.

 

[Anwar]

He was originally supposed to be stalking Wanda at the beginning and Wanda kills him. It was supposed to be one of those "oh, look how easily the villain of the last movie was dispatched" moments to establish how strong Wanda was. However, they decided to save the reveal of her being a villain until later.

Good thing they dropped it, Mordo hasn't been done anything since the first movie's setup.

 

[Turtletrekker]

In Agents of SHIELD season 1, they introduced Franklin Hall, who is the character Graviton in the comics. Hall on the show was the resident expert of the rare element known as gravitonium, but when they actually just came around to using Graviton on the show, they gave the powers to Glenn Talbot instead. Ever wonder why? I did. Here's the story...

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-agents-of-shield-graviton-promised-different-actor/

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Nothing terribly surprising there. Essentially what I figured that happened.

 

[Tosk]

Funny to see CBR ignorantly copy-pasting the same error from the original 2014 Den of Geek article. They use the word "gets" instead of "gits".

 

[Reverend]

It's about what I assumed. They went in expecting to bring him back, but over time other story threads just took over. By the time they got around to it the character would have been all but forgotten by the audience while Talbot had been an almost constant presence, so they went with him instead. Given everything I've seen and read about those show runners over the years, I'd be very surprised if any actual drama was involved.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

INCREDIBLE HULK came out five years after the previous movie. HOMECOMING came out just 3 years after ASM 2. It'll be 9 years since the Trank film when the new Fantastic Four film comes out. And the Trank film was an absolute disaster that barely anyone saw.

More to the point, a studio does not need to base their production's narrative goals on whether or not someone saw a completely unrelated production from another studio. The MCU has its own voice, and sets its own standards within the universe it constructed, similar to any comic book adaptation.

 

[Nightowl1701]

And I suspect they'll give the FF a new origin, since trying to get into space is no big deal when you've already got Nick Fury hanging out on a Skrull starship. I'd bet that Reed's experiment will instead have something to do with the Quantum Realm, the multiverse, or whatever cosmic powers are behind the Ten Rings and/or Ms. Marvel's bangle. After all, everything's interconnected these days. So you might see their origin happening as a side effect of the events of one of the Phase 5 movies, and then their solo movie will feature an adventure where they're already established.

Seems to me WandaVision already had the classic F4 origin lined up for us, what with SWORD's astronaut division and the Cosmic Microwave Background 'Ray'diation (which we saw activate Monica's powers). It's not a huge jump from there to 'Reed wants to study CMBR, gets told no, says "If we don't do it first, the Russians/Latverians/somebody else will" and goes rogue, steals a SWORD rocket with the other three dragged along for the ride.' You could knock all that out in a Marvel one-shot (been a while since we had one of those).

 

[Christopher]

Seems to me WandaVision already had the classic F4 origin lined up for us, what with SWORD's astronaut division and the Cosmic Microwave Background 'Ray'diation (which we saw activate Monica's powers). It's not a huge jump from there to 'Reed wants to study CMBR, gets told no, says "If we don't do it first, the Russians/Latverians/somebody else will" and goes rogue, steals a SWORD rocket with the other three dragged along for the ride.' You could knock all that out in a Marvel one-shot (been a while since we had one of those).

We've been studying the CMBR for decades already. It's just the residual heat from the Big Bang. It was predicted in 1948 and confirmed to exist in 1964, and we've been sending up satellites to map it since the 1980s. Those studies have been responsible for a great deal of the advancement of cosmology over the past few decades. Trying to beat someone else to study of the CMBR would be as outdated as trying to beat the Russians to the Moon.

Besides, the CMBR didn't give Monica her powers; the chaos energies of the Hex rewrote her DNA. The only involvement of the CMBR in WandaVision is that Darcy was able to identify Wanda's television signals encoded into the CMBR, which was anomalous since the CMBR has existed since the dawn of the universe. It was evidence that Wanda's powers had rewritten reality on a fundamental level. The CMBR wasn't the cause of that, it was just the blank canvas that showed the evidence of her work.

Here's an article with more: https://thescienceof.org/wandavision-and-the-cmbr/

 

[Saul]

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/x-men-mcu-legal-issues

Unconfirmed but it would make sense why we have no X-men movie yet. Basically, while Disney owns everything Fox related the previous cast of X-men still have contracts for their roles up until 2025 which means that Disney couldn't cast anyone new in those roles until after that expires.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/x-men-mcu-legal-issues

Unconfirmed but it would make sense why we have no X-men movie yet. Basically, while Disney owns everything Fox related the previous cast of X-men still have contracts for their roles up until 2025 which means that Disney couldn't cast anyone new in those roles until after that expires.

That sounds weird, considering almost every XMen actor has already been recast while under FOX at least once.
So, are we to assume those contracts only apply to the First Class cast? Or did the old group get new contracts when Days of Future’s Past came around while keeping the second group around, too?
Maybe the time travel and era changes allowed for this?
But then it’s hard to believe multiverse shenanigans with the established concept of alternate universe versions being essentially different characters does not count.

 

[Christopher]

But then it’s hard to believe multiverse shenanigans with the established concept of alternate universe versions being essentially different characters does not count.

Every version of a character is the same character legally. Even if they're treated as distinct individuals within a story, that fictional conceit does not count in real life when talking about who legally owns or has contractual rights to a character. In real life, they're still derived from the same single creation of the same person or people. Even Joker's Arthur Fleck is credited as the creation of Bob Kane, Bill Finger, and Jerry Robinson despite bearing very little resemblance to any version of the Joker in the comics.

That's why Marvel couldn't make a Spider-Man movie without making a deal with Sony. In-story, Tom Holland's Peter Parker is a different person from the other two Peter Parkers he met, but in real life, Marvel couldn't claim he was a different character, because the word "character" refers to the concept of a being with a specific name, role, and attributes. It's like a song -- no matter how many different bands perform a song with different arrangements and styles and revised lyrics, they're all still the same song.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Then how could FOX themselves recast those characters without problem and go back and forth between them if the roles are tied to specific actors?

 

[Christopher]

Then how could FOX themselves recast those characters without problem and go back and forth between them if the roles are tied to specific actors?

That's a different question entirely from what defines a distinct character as a piece of intellectual property. But at a guess, First Class came out five years after The Last Stand, so maybe the original actors' contracts had already lapsed and they negotiated new ones for Days of Future Past. Although there were some recastings earlier in X-Men Origins: Wolverine (e.g. young Cyclops), and of course Kitty Pryde was recast twice in three movies. I can't really answer a question about performer contracts, because their terms are not public.

But a situation where "X can't do something until Y's contractual option expires" is fairly common, e.g. how Pocket Books acquired the Star Trek novel license in 1979 but couldn't begin publishing original novels until Bantam released their last contracted novel in 1981.

 

[StCoop]

Assuming it's true it would not be that they have to use these actors it's that the actors would have right of First Refusal on the roles. Like how the Producers of 'Die Hard' had to offer the main role to Frank Sinatra first. And Deadpool aside they'd want to start fresh with casting so safer to wait rather than risk someone saying yes.