Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Mr. Adventure]

I mean it's one possible conclusion that it won't be an origin story. It seems to me another is that they want to do an origin story that will bring something new to the table.

I always try to look at the actual quotes in these articles. I've seen too many draw their own conclusions and present them as fact.

 

[Christopher]

I mean it's one possible conclusion that it won't be an origin story. It seems to me another is that they want to do an origin story that will bring something new to the table.

I always try to look at the actual quotes in these articles. I've seen too many draw their own conclusions and present them as fact.

That's a good point. The phrasing is ambiguous.

Still, the MCU doesn't tend to redo origin stories that have been done on film in recent memory. For the Hulk, they condensed his origin into the main title montage and just got on with the story. For Spider-Man, they opened with him already established and have barely alluded to his origin across the half-dozen movies he's appeared in. They did Captain America's origin, but his only previous feature film (not counting the early serials where he wasn't even Steve Rogers) was an obscure 1990 flop that didn't even get a US theatrical release. Similarly, Doctor Strange's only previous movie was a TV pilot in the '70s.

Daredevil got a full season devoted to his origin story after previously having a feature film version of it, but that series was from Marvel Television, so it doesn't quite count.

 

[Turtletrekker]

They should do just a brief scene of the four of them being exposed to whatever energies give them their powers as a post-credit scene in movie leading up to Fantastic Four.

 

[theenglish]

He was originally supposed to be stalking Wanda at the beginning and Wanda kills him. It was supposed to be one of those "oh, look how easily the villain of the last movie was dispatched" moments to establish how strong Wanda was. However, they decided to save the reveal of her being a villain until later.

That's kind of silly. Based on how we left Mordo and Wanda, the scene could easily be played with Mordo coming across as the baddie and Wanda killing him in self-defense.

 

[Christopher]

They should do just a brief scene of the four of them being exposed to whatever energies give them their powers as a post-credit scene in movie leading up to Fantastic Four.

Or they could make it a subplot in a movie about something else, like how Monica Rambeau's origin was a subplot in WandaVision.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The Fantastic Four preserve a proper origin story (and forget the notion that anyone watched any previous, unrelated adaptation--which did not exist to do homework for any new production), as much for establishing the relationships between the characters as their alter egos. They were the once the most important, high-concept group in Marvel's comics, and should be treated with that kind of reverence IF the Marvel/Disney is trying to get it right now that the FF is in their hands.

 

[Reverend]

I mean it's one possible conclusion that it won't be an origin story. It seems to me another is that they want to do an origin story that will bring something new to the table.

I always try to look at the actual quotes in these articles. I've seen too many draw their own conclusions and present them as fact.

100% agree. I've found that more often than not when one tracks down the original quote in context, it's clearly not implying what the article claims it does. Which I'm sure whomever wrote said article is well aware of, but those clicks ain't gonna bait themselves!

All that said; regardless of what was intended, I do see a solid argument for there being no new "origin movie" for F4, and just getting straight into it. There's a solid precedent too since the MCU's Spider-Man never got his origin depicted (not that it matters, but we still don't know the how, when and why of the spider that bit him) since it had already been done twice in recent memory (just like F4.)
Granted, by the third Spider-Man it showed that they were playing the long game with his origin (or at least a traditionally key part of it) but the point stands in regards to first appearances.

Indeed, they've already shown at least one multiversal variant of Reed Richards without needing to explain him, so why belabour the point?

Hell, for all we know, all of the Richards/Storm clan could be introduced in the main plot of one or several other upcoming movies or shows prior to their solo outing (as was the case for both Peter & T'Challa) up to and including depicting whichever version of "hit by cosmic rays" they go with being part of the plot.
Bonus points if there a post credit stinger of them coming to in hiospital having survived whatever CG fest finale that just ended 'Quantumania' or 'The Marvels' or whatever, just as their new powers being to manifest. Cut to black. "The Fantastic Four will return!" And done.

 

[Mage]

https://www.joblo.com/jon-favreau-tony-stark-death/

Nothing shocking or anything....

But there's an interesting 'What If....' in there. What if Tony didn't die at the end of Endgame?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Indeed, they've already shown at least one multiversal variant of Reed Richards without needing to explain him, so why belabour the point?

Because that was a one-off, not the actual story which introduces the entire team and their lives, drives & purpose.

Hell, for all we know, all of the Richards/Storm clan could be introduced in the main plot of one or several other upcoming movies or shows prior to their solo outing

...only if its more than a 5 minute scene. The MCU is supposed to operate on its own, as if no other adaptations ever existed (and its creatively lazy and assumes audience awareness to let other productions do the work when they have nothing to do with this franchise). The few good MCU films took time to introduce characters in some way--not just toss people into the toyboy and push the blend button out of the gates.

 

[Set Harth]

That's kind of silly. Based on how we left Mordo and Wanda, the scene could easily be played with Mordo coming across as the baddie and Wanda killing him in self-defense.

Also, Wanda reveals herself as the villain in the middle of her first scene in the film. It doesn't seem like much is gained by deleting the Mordo stuff.

 

[theenglish]

Also, Wanda reveals herself as the villain in the middle of her first scene in the film. It doesn't seem like much is gained by deleting the Mordo stuff.

Yes, it could have been a better story if Wanda had played Strange and Chavez along for awhile as they searched for the Darkhold. This may actually have been the original intention of the story as I read somewhere that the attack on the mages was original supposed to have been toward the end of the movie.

 

[YLu]

If it was just about the superpowers, I could see them skipping the Fantastic Four's origin. But it's also important for establishing Reed feeling responsible for Ben's condition, and that's too key to just cover in exposition or brief flashback. Then again, I would have thought Peter Parker being poor was really important, but the first two films made him a junior tech bro and made it work, so who knows.

 

[Christopher]

If it was just about the superpowers, I could see them skipping the Fantastic Four's origin. But it's also important for establishing Reed feeling responsible for Ben's condition, and that's too key to just cover in exposition or brief flashback.

Except that the first issue of the comic did cover it in a flashback. The origin took up only 5 pages out of a 25-page issue, after the 8-page introduction to the fully empowered characters.

Besides, lots of stories establish those kinds of backstory motivations through dialogue recounting the past events, rather than actually showing the events. We didn't see King Hamlet's murder in Hamlet, or the murder of Inigo Montoya's father in The Princess Bride -- we just heard about them after the fact, and that told us all we needed to know. Sometimes "show, don't tell" doesn't have to apply. Sometimes you can convey a character motivation more powerfully by how the characters talk about an event than you can by actually showing it.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

If it was just about the superpowers, I could see them skipping the Fantastic Four's origin. But it's also important for establishing Reed feeling responsible for Ben's condition, and that's too key to just cover in exposition or brief flashback. .

Interesting point. Unlike a 1960s comic book flashback, which often used narrative shorthand (only to end up expanding on the once-abbreviated ideas in numerous issues to come because the shorthand was not sufficient), Ben's reaction was instant, but in film--dealing with real people, he cannot be seen depressed / angry over his condition over the span of a few minutes, and its left there, especially as his plight was a central, running theme well over the first 100 issues of the comic.

For what used to be the most bold concept ever created at Marvel, there needs to be patience with the MCU version and resist the urge to catapult underdeveloped characters into yet another of the 40,000 (and running) noise/CGI-fests. A "proper" FF movie deserves more than that, but it remains to be seen if that kind of FF movie will be producd.

 

[flandry84]

Yup just start the movie with a five minute sequence of “another day in the Baxter building”.Powers and characters established let the adventure begin.
Personally I find nothing as draining as these origin movies.

 

[DarKush]

Well, we all knew that someone, somewhere would find a reason to do it. Apparently, there are calls to boycott wakanda forever because.. *checks notes* because they didn't recast T'Challa.

This is apparently the "biggest attack on an a-list superhero in Marvel history".


https://insidethemagic.net/2022/07/black-panther-wakanda-forever-boycott-th1/

I personally think they may be jumping the gun. If some of the leaked plot details are true, then...

Spoiler: Wakanda Forever

Then Shuri will travel to the ancestral realm and encounter... Eric Killmonger.

If true, I suspect the first thing shuri would ask would be, where's t'challa?

My suspicion is that Killmonger will respond something along the lines of, "he ain't here", thus leaving his fate open and allowing T'Challa to grow into a legend.

The You Tuber E-Man's Movie Reviews started a #Recast T'Challa petition (which I have signed), along with FAQs, that lays out a great deal of the pro-recast argument. E-Man who has become a major, if not the major, voice when it comes to recasting T'Challa is not advocating a boycott, though he also isn't telling people what to do with their money. E-Man has also promoted recasting, at some time or in some way, eventually. He's not saying that the recast needs to happen in Wakanda Forever. Hopefully I paraphrased some of what he has said correctly, but he does have a You Tube channel where he goes into depth about his stance.

What I think is going to happen over the next several months is a lot of emotions are going to be stirred up, on both (or all) sides, and the recasters of E-Man's ilk will get the blame for anything toxic (real or perceived), and E-Man, being the face of it, will perhaps get it the most. Also, I think some in the Hollywood/geek media are not going to give this argument a fair shake because they think it's ridiculous or toxic right off and will look for ways to delegitimize it and the people who express the recast sentiment.

Petition · Recast T'Challa To Honor Chadwick Boseman In the Black Panther Franchise · Change.org

Petition update · Petition FAQs · Change.org

 

[YLu]

Except that the first issue of the comic did cover it in a flashback. The origin took up only 5 pages out of a 25-page issue, after the 8-page introduction to the fully empowered characters.

Other things the first issue did: Have Ben speak in a completely different speech pattern. Have the team not wear costumes.

I don’t think “Fantastic Four #1 did it that way” is much of an argument. IIRC, Reed’s guilt doesn’t even get established until later issues.

Plus, five pages is one fifth of the issue. If the film spends a fifth of its runtime on the origin, then it’s not really skipping it.

 

[Christopher]

Other things the first issue did: Have Ben speak in a completely different speech pattern. Have the team not wear costumes.

I don’t think “Fantastic Four #1 did it that way” is much of an argument. IIRC, Reed’s guilt doesn’t even get established until later issues.

Plus, five pages is one fifth of the issue. If the film spends a fifth of its runtime on the origin, then it’s not really skipping it.

Wow, way to take the comparison way too literally. Obviously I was not saying they should do it exactly the same way as FF #1. I was saying that the FF's origin story has never been the most important or interesting thing about them.

 

[Turtletrekker]

As opposed to modern comic stories that spread a character's origin over a six issue arc? Five pages is very sparse.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I can't point to any evidence of any kind and I don't even know which project might be a candidate, but my gut feeling here is that we are going to see the F4's origin story in someone else's project. It will probably be a direct result of the team somehow getting involved as civilians in the main plot of that film/show and their solo film will build from that.