Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
- Start date
They take place on Earth 617. Fight me.
There's a chance that Agent Carter could be made Canonical to the Sacred Timeline, but Loki Season 1 explicitly establishes that the Sacred Timeline's Phil Coulson died at Limits hand and stayed dead, completely invalidating any notion of AoS being able to fit on it since the entire premise of the show is predicated on his death in The Avengers being reversed.
With that fact in mind, I felt that the most ideal way to include AoS, Agent Carter, et al in a Multiversal Viewing Order despite their current non-Canonical status was to put them all in the same alternate universe.
With that fact in mind, I felt that the most ideal way to include AoS, Agent Carter, et al in a Multiversal Viewing Order despite their current non-Canonical status was to put them all in the same alternate universe.
I'm not sure there's any dialogue implicitly stating that he "stayed dead". Simply that Loki killed him, which he did. No one is questioning that. At any rate, none of this precludes the possibility of the theoretical Earth 617 ("What if Nick Fury Activated Project Tahiti?") or some other multiversal option.
Mobiius refers to Coulson as a "dead man", and because the context of Coulson's death was absolutely relevant to his conversation with Loki, there is no logical reason why he wouldn't have also talked about Coulson being resurrected in relation to the intended course of the Sacred Timeline itself.
Beyond that, though, Brad Winderbaum has publicly said that he's interested in "trying to square" Agent Carter and Agents of SHIELD "with the Canon", thus making it clear that they are not currently part of said Canon.
Edit: As an aside, I think I'm going to borrow and use Earth-617 as the designator for the universe of AoS, Agent Carter, et al provided you don't mind.
Last edited:
It's relevant to the conversation because Loki killed him. As I said, no one is questioning that. He was dead. A corpse. Beyond Earthly means of revival. Whether or not he was brought back later is not relevant to the conversation that Mobius was having with Loki at that time. It doesn't let Loki off the hook for what he did just because Coulson was technobabbled back to life. He murdered a man In cold blood and that was the only thing relevant to the conversation being had. There are none of the absolutes in what was said that you seem to be implying.
And if you want to get into nitpicky quibbles about timelines, from Loki's subjective standpoint his murder of Coulson was only hours prior, and Coulson was dead for 3 days before being revived at Project Tahiti. Therefore, again from Loki's subjective standpoint, Coulson indeed would have still been dead... because he hadn't been sent to Tahiti yet.
ETA: Also, the means by which Coulson was restored actually points to a legitimate MCU connection because the whole "Kree blood has regenerative properties on humans" thing that was established on Agents of SHIELD was used in Captain Marvel to explain Carol's recovery from near-death by way of her transfusion with Yon-Rogg.
And if you want to get into nitpicky quibbles about timelines, from Loki's subjective standpoint his murder of Coulson was only hours prior, and Coulson was dead for 3 days before being revived at Project Tahiti. Therefore, again from Loki's subjective standpoint, Coulson indeed would have still been dead... because he hadn't been sent to Tahiti yet.
ETA: Also, the means by which Coulson was restored actually points to a legitimate MCU connection because the whole "Kree blood has regenerative properties on humans" thing that was established on Agents of SHIELD was used in Captain Marvel to explain Carol's recovery from near-death by way of her transfusion with Yon-Rogg.
Last edited:
It's actually on Earth 615. Wanna go at it?
I still think it's feasible for season 6 to take place in the post-Snap world, since we don't really see that much of the larger world beyond the team, and the various recurring characters who don't appear in that season could be presumed to have been Snapped. I figure that a year after the Snap, people are still in denial and trying to go on with their lives as if it didn't happen, as opposed to the deeper despair that's set in by Endgame. It's conceivable that the main cast could've avoided Blippification, by the same token that the Iron Man cast and core Avengers all survived while other casts like Ant-Man, Black Panther, and Spider-Man were completely Blipped. Just because it was 50% of the whole population doesn't require it to be exactly 50% of each individual small group, because that's not how randomness works.
Although I'm open to the alternative that the team being taken to the future at the end of season 4 created a new timeline that they were in through seasons 5-6. Arguably that's obligatory by Endgame temporal theory. I'd like to think that at least the first four seasons are in 616, since the early seasons meshed so closely with the movies. The problem is that there's no sign in the main MCU of all the world-changing Inhuman stuff that happened in AoS. But one could handwave that maybe the Inhumans ended up moving to Attilan on the Moon during the Blip years.
Runaways season 3 contradicts the time travel physics established in Endgame, but then, so do the X-Men movies that have now been folded into the MCU multiverse, and arguably so did the climax of Doctor Strange. C&D, as far as I recall, has no issues. It references Luke Cage and crosses over with Runaways, and it features the Roxxon Corporation, which was frequently featured in other MCU shows and films.
Helstrom (they changed the spelling) was originally conceived as an MCU series, but by the time it aired, they'd decided to treat it as its own unconnected thing. The animated shows are not meant to be part of the MCU.
I'm not sure that's necessarily true; in Star Trek, for example, haven't we seen that different methods of time travel behave differently?
That escalated quickly!
This is my approach to the series,
Yeah this is a bit of an issue, but I don't think there's any reason you couldn't just squint and say all of that was happening offscreen and we just didn't see or hear about it in the movies. We see this kind of thing in shared universes all the time.