News Martin-Green: Star Trek Is About Universality

[jaime]

I think there's a tie in novel that explains how he never truly got over his teen goth phase.

(Which he initially got into because his sister kept playing The Cure records )

True folk of that persuasion would never wear blue. Though the kids today, who knows.

 

[jaime]

I pictured him as more of a Surak and the Banshees or No-Joy Division fan, myself.

With that make up, it’s probably Bullet for my Ponn Farrtine

 

[Long Syntax]

In conclusion, you kinda missed my point and talked down to me.

Welcome to TrekBBS Joshua C. Now might be a good time to remind you to brace yourself for a bumpy ride

 

[Awesome Possum]

I’m really hoping that you aren’t referring to me, Possum. As a moderator here, I’d like to think you read my thoughts and considered what I was getting at without leaping to ugly conclusions. I most certainly did not suggest that quality and diversity are in any way mutually exclusive, and if you thought that was implied in my words, then Id appreciate you addressing it directly in conversation rather than accepting the deeply warped perspective of some not-so-critical thinkers here who have said some lousy, undeserved things. It sounds as though you may be content with their misreading and demonizing of my words, and also content to call me a bigot. I don’t believe a careful reading of my comments could lead an adult to that conclusion. Something ugly, and prejudice, slanderous and closed minded happened here, on your watch, and I was on the receiving end of it. If you support the accusing side of this little exchange, then Id like to know it. I am going to clarify things a bit, with what will hopefully be my last exchange with gblews ever.

It's a general attitude, both here and across the internet. Also I'm not the mod for this forum, just TNZ. I have no influence or power here. I'm just like every other poster and bound by the same rules.

I never met anyone who had an issue with a black Vulcan, but I did know people who complained they didn't give Tim Russ a bowl cut wig with straight hair.

For that matter, it stuck in my craw that Tuvok's wife had straight hair despite being played by a black actress. But more generally, I've never really understood why Vulcan women (particularly, but not limited to T'Pol) are shown paying any attention to their appearance besides basic hygiene, since it hardly seems to fit in with the Vulcan mindset.

Vulcans have a culture and seemingly strict social rules. You'll notice that even Michael forced herself to fit into it, but straightening her hair. Something she dropped once she joined Starfleet. Cultures generally have different rules for males and females, I'm not sure why Vulcans would be an exception.

 

[Vlat]

Didn't they say that the latest Star Trek series are a feminist piece? Does Planet Earth ring a bell? LOL

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[Spot261]

Didn't they say that the latest Star Trek series are a feminist piece? Does Planet Earth ring a bell? LOL

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Are they not?

 

[jaime]

It's a general attitude, both here and across the internet. Also I'm not the mod for this forum, just TNZ. I have no influence or power here. I'm just like every other poster and bound by the same rules.

Vulcans have a culture and seemingly strict social rules. You'll notice that even Michael forced herself to fit into it, but straightening her hair. Something she dropped once she joined Starfleet. Cultures generally have different rules for males and females, I'm not sure why Vulcans would be an exception.

Given his history, it is likely that it’s Tuvok himself rebelling with his haircut, as opposed to the other Vulcans. We also see ‘asian’ Vulcans and Romulans.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Didn't they say that the latest Star Trek series are a feminist piece? Does Planet Earth ring a bell? LOL

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Roddenberry died a while ago, so he doesn't really have much to do with Trek anymore. Being dead really limits your ability to produce television. So I'm not sure what that failed pilot has to do with anything.

 

[Lord Garth]

Didn't they say that the latest Star Trek series are a feminist piece? Does Planet Earth ring a bell? LOL

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Planet Earth was slightly before my time but I'd say, from the looks of it, it wasn't a piece so much as it was a piece of shit. Unlike Discovery, which I think is the best Star Trek we've had in almost 20 years. Cue everyone who disagrees with me.

 

[jaime]

Roddenberry died a while ago, so he doesn't really have much to do with Trek anymore. Being dead really limits your ability to produce television. So I'm not sure what that failed pilot has to do with anything.

He’s only dead for tax purposes. Like Hotblack Desiato. Obviously.

 

[Lord Garth]

He’s only dead for tax purposes. Like Hotblack Desiato. Obviously.

Gene Roddenberry is the Tupac Shakur of Science-Fiction. Living the California Dream and constantly coming out with new shows or new stuff is appearing based off his ideas.

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[Mudd]

Trek doesn't have much to do with previous Trek any more.

 

[Draculasaurus]

It's a general attitude, both here and across the internet. Also I'm not the mod for this forum, just TNZ. I have no influence or power here. I'm just like every other poster and bound by the same rules.

Vulcans have a culture and seemingly strict social rules. You'll notice that even Michael forced herself to fit into it, but straightening her hair. Something she dropped once she joined Starfleet. Cultures generally have different rules for males and females, I'm not sure why Vulcans would be an exception.

I think you're misremembering that.
Michael's hair doesn't change to the tight curl pompadour until after her trial.
She had already been in Starfleet seven years at that point.

 

[jaime]

I think you're misremembering that.
Michael's hair doesn't change to the tight curl pompadour until after her trial.
She had already been in Starfleet seven years at that point.

It is because she felt she had given into emotion, and could no longer wear the bowl cut of Surak. This year, she will seek the ancient Vulcan ritual of Kut’to Pan. The Restyling.
Tuvok as we know was a rebel child, and thus kept his edgy haircut. It has a literal edge, this far no further, because he never passed the Vulcan ritual of Straightenahr.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I think you're misremembering that.
Michael's hair doesn't change to the tight curl pompadour until after her trial.
She had already been in Starfleet seven years at that point.

My mistake, I only watched the pilot once because I didn't care for it.

 

[Nyotarules]

I never met anyone who had an issue with a black Vulcan, but I did know people who complained they didn't give Tim Russ a bowl cut wig with straight hair.

For that matter, it stuck in my craw that Tuvok's wife had straight hair despite being played by a black actress. But more generally, I've never really understood why Vulcan women (particularly, but not limited to T'Pol) are shown paying any attention to their appearance besides basic hygiene, since it hardly seems to fit in with the Vulcan mindset.

The few Vulcan people in TOS and the movies had more personality then the clones presented in TNG, ENT and DISC. The ENT Home episode T'Pol did say Vulcans appreciate beauty

 

[ozzfloyd]

The worst I heard in the mid-90s regarding a black Vulcan was a semi-derogatory "Tuvok Shakur". Tim did such a great job most of the silly critiques went by the wayside pretty quick.

 

[Spot261]

The worst I heard in the mid-90s regarding a black Vulcan was a semi-derogatory "Tuvok Shakur". Tim did such a great job most of the silly critiques went by the wayside pretty quick.

Problem for me is he shouldn't have to. He should be able to come out of that role judged on nothing but his performance regardless of how good it is. I know this isn't what you're suggesting (it's how others behave) but that mentality seems to operate on the basis only talented black people get to avoid racism. Had he been a hack he'd have somehow deserved everything he got.

 

[jaime]

Problem for me is he shouldn't have to. He should be able to come out of that role judged on nothing but his performance regardless of how good it is. I know this isn't what you're suggesting (it's how others behave) but that mentality seems to operate on the basis only talented black people get to avoid racism. Had he been a hack he'd have somehow deserved everything he got.

I think in Tuvok case it was more that he was going to be the first Vulcan series regular since Spock. The only racism around it I remember was misjudged attempts at humour, and that lasted all of three jokes from teenagers...though the joke amongst ,y group of Voyager watching friends was that Tuvok had decks on the bridge for when he was in command, and could mix some tunes for his shift. My groups of Voyager watching friends was three Caribbean dudes and me. In fact, Voyager was extremely popular with a later wider group of friends that were about 90 percent Caribbean. I never met a white Trek fan post TNG actually, but that’s More to do with my social circle and work history I guess...

 

[Spot261]

I think in Tuvok case it was more that he was going to be the first Vulcan series regular since Spock. The only racism around it I remember was misjudged attempts at humour, and that lasted all of three jokes from teenagers...though the joke amongst ,y group of Voyager watching friends was that Tuvok had decks on the bridge for when he was in command, and could mix some tunes for his shift. My groups of Voyager watching friends was three Caribbean dudes and me. In fact, Voyager was extremely popular with a later wider group of friends that were about 90 percent Caribbean. I never met a white Trek fan post TNG actually, but that’s More to do with my social circle and work history I guess...

I don't particularly recall any racism myself, in fact it took me till near the end of the series to actually make the connection Tuvok was black. The same thing happened with Worf, it was coming out of seeing FC in the cinema and overhearing a comment made by someone in another group when the lightbulb went on. Call me stupid but it simply hadn't occurred to me to think about the colour of an alien's skin.

Sadly though, it seems @ozzfloyd did pick up on a wee bit more and that was really what I was reacting to.