Manu Intiraymi as "Icheb"

[Paul755]

Jeri Ryan as 7 of 9: Main character in VOY and a fan favorite. Was mainly brought back because of her past as a Borg drone like Picard/Locutus. But is written to be a completely different character from what we saw in VOY, and there are zero references to her time on Voyager or anything else having to do with the crew or that show. This character (former Borg drone now in some space vigilante group with a hint of lesbianism) could easily have been played by anyone, and could easily have been a new character since she really has nothing at all in common with the 7 of 9 character from VOY other than the actress who plays her.

she’s a “different character” because in Picard it’s been 20 years since Voyager got home. That’s a lot of time for her to actually grow and change. She wasn’t going to stay that stiff and socially awkward ex-drone that wore tight catsuits forever. Especially surrounded by so many humans and especially because we don’t know what all her experiences have been.

 

[Dukhat]

she’s a “different character” because in Picard it’s been 20 years since Voyager got home. That’s a lot of time for her to actually grow and change. She wasn’t going to stay that stiff and socially awkward ex-drone that wore tight catsuits forever. Especially surrounded by so many humans and especially because we don’t know what all her experiences have been.

There’s a huge difference between growing and changing, and being something completely different. Anyone could have played that character for all the similarity it had to 7 of 9 in any way, shape or form other than being a former Borg drone.

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

“There are zero references to her time on Voyager.”

This is a thread about Seven’s scene with Icheb, where she says she thinks of him as a son, and considers him family. The entire scene was a reference to her time on Voyager.

 

[Paul755]

There’s a huge difference between growing and changing, and being something completely different. Anyone could have played that character for all the similarity it had to 7 of 9 in any way, shape or form other than being a former Borg drone.

after 20 years she was going to be almost a completely different character after being exposed to so much humanity and a wider range of Alpha Quadrant species. She was nearly a blank slate in a lot of regards.

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

after 20 years she was going to be almost a completely different character after being exposed to so much humanity and a wider range of Alpha Quadrant species. She was nearly a blank slate in a lot of regards.

Well said! She was still so new to her own humanity, and society, at the end of Voyager, to have her *not* appear massively different would’ve required audiences to believe she didn’t grow at all. It’s really not unlike comparing a child to their adult selves decades later.

Seven’s characterization is absolutely growth. The Seven in Picard is motivated to help those in need who are not getting help as a member of the Fenris Rangers, which to me is a logical outgrowth of the values and lessons imparted to her via her protégé/mentor relationship with Janeway. And her behavior on the Borg ship, and relationship with Hugh/protectiveness of the other xBs was built on her previous characterization on Voyager, where she demonstrated the same tendencies with their xB kids, and especially Icheb.

 

[Dukhat]

I saw no growth. I saw a completely different character who happened to have the same name and the same actress as another character from 20 years before. And as I mentioned before, the Icheb thing was more of a fuck you moment to Intiraymi than any kind of link to her time on Voyager. The guy could have been her brother for all it mattered.

 

[Ragitsu]

A character (and a well-received one at that) should not suffer because an actor is perceived a certain way.

 

[Dukhat]

The actor is at the mercy of the script he or she has been given.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

This character (former Borg drone now in some space vigilante group with a hint of lesbianism) could easily have been played by anyone, and could easily have been a new character since she really has nothing at all in common with the 7 of 9 character from VOY other than the actress who plays her.

The simpler answer: don't kill Hugh. Jonathan del Arco out-acted everyone on Picard.

 

[Paul755]

I saw no growth. I saw a completely different character who happened to have the same name and the same actress as another character from 20 years before. And as I mentioned before, the Icheb thing was more of a fuck you moment to Intiraymi than any kind of link to her time on Voyager. The guy could have been her brother for all it mattered.

I disagree. Openly showing emotions like extreme pain and sadness plus the desire for proper vengeance were all things either just hinted at or shown in very small, controlled doses. Letting those out shows that she’s grown to…for better or worse…embraced being human more than she ever did on Voyager.

Plus I don’t think Voyager era Seven unplugs from Queens Chamber. She turned down the collective before but being plugged in is a different story.

 

[Jayson1]

Manu Intiraymi views are ones that I think were actually more common back in the day. Adults having relationship with teenagers was not uncommon in society. Then people tend to think differently when the teenager is a boy as oppose to a girl. Some people are still in that mindset I guess. If they didn't want to bring him back that is fine but IMO they should have not graphically tortured the character to give the actor the middle finger. That felt classless. They could have just killed him offscreen or in a less brutal way at least.

 

[jackoverfull]

The simpler answer: don't kill Hugh. Jonathan del Arco out-acted everyone on Picard.

agreed here: he was a great characters and was killed with no real reason and with no great effects, quite a pity.

At least Icheb’s death had a role in 7’s development.

 

[Ragitsu]

The actor is at the mercy of the script he or she has been given.

Apparently, a character was at the mercy of misplaced spitefulness.

 

[F. King Daniel]

IMO they should have not graphically tortured the character to give the actor the middle finger

They graphically killed the character to give Seven of Nine motivation in the episode. They cast a different actor because they wanted nothing to do with Manu.

 

[Amaris]

Good evening.

Do you believe Manu Intiraymi could have pulled off the same role Icheb was given on Star Trek: Picard?

I'm glad we didn't have to find out. Manu can be unemployed in the Star Trek business for all I care.

 

[Jayson1]

They graphically killed the character to give Seven of Nine motivation in the episode. They cast a different actor because they wanted nothing to do with Manu.

I know but when Yar died it wasn't because Armus used his powers to pull her head off. When Dukat killed Jadzia you didn't see her body catch on fire.

 

[Tuskin38]

I know but when Yar died it wasn't because Armus used his powers to pull her head off. When Dukat killed Jadzia you didn't see her body catch on fire.

Higher age rating, more mature show. I'm fine with it.

 

[Jayson1]

Higher age rating, more mature show. I'm fine with it.

I don't mind it overall either seeing Trek do more mature stuff but it doesn't feel right somehow when the character your doing it to was a established reaccuring character. It's not like a red shirt or guest of the week that is being killed this way. Or even a character you created specifically for this new show. Plus you feel they are going extra brutal just to give a middle finger to the old actor.
At least I will say I was never a big Icheb fan so there is that but I would really be bothered if they killed Barclay off in familiar way because I guess the actor is a Republican.

 

[Ragitsu]

more mature

For a certain measure of "mature" (referring specifically to protracted gratuitous violence).

 

[Tuskin38]

I doubt they killed Icheb off because of what the actor did. They wanted to do something to effect Seven. Why not kill someone she saw as almost her own son? Better than creating brand new character no one knows just to kill off.

I don't mind it overall either seeing Trek do more mature stuff but it doesn't feel right somehow when the character your doing it to was a established reaccuring character. It's not like a red shirt or guest of the week that is being killed this way.

Why should reoccurring characters be immune? That's silly.