Madame Web, go-go Marvel Fatigue!
- Thread starter Guy Gardener
- Start date
They killed off Doctor f%cking Who first. If anyone was going to get "most" of them out of that mess alive, it was our 2nd favourite Timelord.
She might be the first final girl? Or maybe second. I guess Texas Chainsaw Massacre had already came out.
That explains her appearance in Cabin in the Woods?
And Halloween would’ve barely beaten it to the punch I believe in 1978.
Which is why that movie would be hated if it came out today. We've regressed.
Funny, no one complained that the Marines all came off as incompetents next to a lady who'd never held a rifle before.
You talking about Ripley or Newt?
P.S.
Ripley knew how to shoot, what that is that she was doing is called flirting.
Well there's Black Christmas
(although it's kinda implied the final girl actually gets killed at the end)
I've another theory: both of these films are science fiction films. For viewers of the time, the "strong" woman was a fantastic element like the Alien and the Terminator. There was no thought whatsoever of any political agenda. It was simply something that had no bearing on reality. Complaining about it would have been like saying Cameron wanted to make propaganda for the Xenomorphs.
The problem is when women also began to have roles previously typically reserved for men (see for example in the armed forces). Men with fragile masculinity began to feel threatened and therefore any work of fiction that in some way reflected this social novelty becomes a work of propaganda, woke, SJW or whatever term is in fashion now.
Forgot Halloween. I keep thinking it was made in early 80's.
I don't think the Marines came off as incompetent. They came off as being outmatched. Plus you got the Hicks character. Plus everyone loves Bill Paxton in the movie. The movie also has one of the female type of characters tend to love and that is the badass one of the guys characters such as Vasquez. Also didn't matter if Ripley held a rifle. The character was already beloved. Plus she has the badass ending with the forklift and he "Get away from her you bitch" fight. Basically it has everything in it that your typical 80's male would love in a movie.
Yeah, no.
I think a big issue was these older movies and even modern movies with strong female characters that are liked is that since they also have strong male characters they feel less like a threat to Boomer and Gen X culture. Some of these movies disliked are because they feel like they are part of the culture war.
What happens though is many of these movies are also bad and the characters people complaining about are also bad because all of it is being made in a non-artistic corporate setting. The Disney effect on Hollywood in essence. So you get endless reboots. All the strong female characters often just feel like carbon copies of each other because lots of the choices being made are not coming from the artist but business guys and ladies in suits. I mean just look at the MCU. Unless you happen to be James Gunn they seem to just pick directors who will do whatever the studio dictates to them. If you want to something unique you don't get hired or you end up getting fired like Edgar Wright on "Ant-Man."
Thing is though is when you look outside of the sort of mainstream popcorn movies lots of the issues happening with those movies don't exist. A24 movies are never going to be ruined by some suit telling them how to make a movie or appeal to a modern audience or China. They let the artist make art so the movies are usually great and many of them of course explore progressive themes but not through a corporate filter.
Legitimately shocking.
I don't identify as an anti-wokester or a fan of anti-wokesters, and I certainly won't tell you that anti-wokesters, particularly on YouTube, are the most enlightened people out there, that they don't rile regularly themselves up with negativity for clicks, or even that they generally have good or constructive intent. That said, I also don't believe they're invariably malicious people who're so obsessed with hating everything non-cis white male that they calculate every opinion for maximum bile, nor do I think it's helpful to reflexively assume that.
Yes, their opinions are often toxic and confrontational, but that doesn't mean every opinion they hold is necessarily wrong. For instance, I personally agree with The Critical Drinker that Star Trek Beyond is wildly overrated crap, and that The Last Jedi is an insult to the character of Luke Skywalker, but he likes both the mostly female-centric House of the Dragon S1 and the POC-led with a cartoonishly villainous white antagonist RRR better than I did.
So, IMHO, one can by all means call them out when they spout toxic bullsh*t if one likes, and if one thinks that that's more helpful than heeding the wise adage of "Don't feed the trolls." But, IMHO again, to actively look for reasons to discount their opinions every time one agrees with them (such as, in praising the heroines of T2 and Aliens) is an obnoxious waste of time.
Your right in that they are not always wrong at least on the surface but lots of them know what kind of feelings in people they are playing to. Some of them like to go after what I call low hanging targets. Easy characters to pick on because they aren't really all that good to help promote the main objective which is to win the culture war against more modern ideas.
When you have a good character like say Ms Marvel they instead change tactics and talk about things like "Who was this made for?" It's because they can't attack the quality, but instead the lack of popularity in low ratings or lack of profit made. Which is where they once again get to use truth to manipulate for their bigger agenda because it is kind of true. The show wasn't popular except for those of us who liked it which wasn't many. It was almost certain to always be a niche type of show. A cult classic within the bigger more mainstream MCU stuff. But they will only begrudgingly admit to the good stuff about the character or show.
When you have a good character like say Ms Marvel they instead change tactics and talk about things like "Who was this made for?" It's because they can't attack the quality, but instead the lack of popularity in low ratings or lack of profit made. Which is where they once again get to use truth to manipulate for their bigger agenda because it is kind of true. The show wasn't popular except for those of us who liked it which wasn't many. It was almost certain to always be a niche type of show. A cult classic within the bigger more mainstream MCU stuff. But they will only begrudgingly admit to the good stuff about the character or show.
Kind of like when you use the term "neckbeard" as a winking synonym for a bad person, implying that those whose facial hair style diverges from the prevailing fashion of the day necessarily deserve mockery and derision?
Cameron admits in his commentary that some of them act unprofessionally and un-Marine like, especially in the shipboard scenes. His brother later became a Marine, and he made an effort to more accurately portray the Marine mindset in the Avatar movies.
That said, the actors' charisma, and Cameron's memorable lines and character arcs go a long way, and of course Hicks isn't portrayed as an incompetent; he'd be leading the fight if he hadn't gotten injured.
It's only fair. Otherwise the prevailing fashion of the day would get all the mockery and derision.Kind of like when you use the term "neckbeard" as a winking synonym for a bad person, implying that those whose facial hair style diverges from the prevailing fashion of the day necessarily deserve mockery and derision?
It's about mockery and derision equity.
That's completely bullshit, and nothing more than a dumbass excuse to try to cover up the fact that they're just sexist assholes. They just want to make themselves out to be the heroes fighting for the poor men even anybody who actually watches the movies or shows can tell that everything they're saying is complete bullshit.
Sure, but people still talked, and I think a lot of the old magazines had letter columns, so there were still ways for people's complaints to get out.
That seems more likely to me.