Lt. Uhura

[Scott Kellogg]

I felt uncomfortable watching Grace Lee Whitney get assaulted in "The Enemy Within"
And the snide Attitude Spock takes toward her at the end, where he basically asked if she enjoyed it.

I don't know if that scene was filmed before or after Roddenberry went after her. But, it's pretty darn creepy.

(BTW, as far as I can see, Cosby *offered*drugs to women. He didn't slip it to them unawares. Frankly, I know more about this than I want to, and I don't wish to dig any deeper in the case of either man.)

 

[Maurice]

Look, I'm not the one who moved the goal posts in the first place.
The prosecution had to practically erase the statutes of limitations, and violate court procedures and confidentialities to obtain a conviction. And it was because the Prosecutor
acted unethically, the conviction was overturned.

For thousands of years, offering a woman a drink might be questionable, but it was acceptable.
Now, the goal posts say it's not. It's a sterilizable offense!

Face it: Cosby and Roddenberry both took advantage of women with drugs & alcohol.
Either you separate that fact from watching the show, or you don't.

For some people it's easier to separate the art from the artist when the artist is not in your face.

That's the point you're missing in your need to equate Roddenberry with Cosby, et al. No one's defending either.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

If I read you correctly you appear to be arguing that they're not equivalent.
Now, you object to their offscreen actions, not what they did as actor and producer.
What differentiates their actions?

 

[dupersuper]

There is a scene in an episode we saw recently where Cosby slips a mickey in a (man's) drink and it was all kinds of uncomfortable.

What's so upsetting is he was doing this stuff as early as 1965.

I can usually forget the fact during the watching of the show. God help us if it turns out Robert Culp was terrible!

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I don't know if that scene was filmed before or after Roddenberry went after her. But, it's pretty darn creepy.

Was there confirmation that was Roddenberry? I've only ever heard "a higher up on the show", or words to that effect.

 

[ScottJ85]

For thousands of years, offering a woman a drink might be questionable, but it was acceptable.
Now, the goal posts say it's not. It's a sterilizable offense!

I feel like there's a difference between politely offering a woman an adult beverage, and using your power to insist she drink something that may well be laced or mixed way stronger than she's used to.

 

[Myko]

If I read you correctly you appear to be arguing that they're not equivalent.
Now, you object to their offscreen actions, not what they did as actor and producer.
What differentiates their actions?

That's not was he's arguing at all. He's saying that it's easier to watch Star Trek without thinking about Gene Roddenberry than it is to watch I, Spy without thinking of Cosby.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Was there confirmation that was Roddenberry? I've only ever heard "a higher up on the show", or words to that effect.

"The Executive" as Grace Lee Whitney tagged him. And no, there's never been confirmation. The evidence is largely circumstantial but compelling. The polished gems he offered her is the most damning part. But Grace refused to name names and she was friendly and complimentary toward Roddenberry for the rest of her life. Maybe that was part of her 12 Step recovery (forgiveness) or maybe it wasn't him. People are free to draw their own conclusions. Nobody else has come forth to any great degree and they're both gone so I'm not sure it matters.

Even if it was Roddenberry, she painted him as acting on his impulses while he was drunk and felt awful afterwards. That's shitty (to be kind), absolutely and firing her to keep himself safe or so he doesn't have to face it is pretty f'n terrible. Bill Cosby, however, was accused and found guilty of decades of drugging woman's drinks and pressuring then into sex. I don't know how fair it is to put Roddenberry on the same level as that. YMMV.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

That's not was he's arguing at all. He's saying that it's easier to watch Star Trek without thinking about Gene Roddenberry than it is to watch I, Spy without thinking of Cosby.

So, I presume you're going to boycott the Gene Roddenberry bio-pic that folks talked about a little while ago?
Kind of hard to separate him from that.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

"The Executive" as Grace Lee Whitney tagged him. And no, there's never been confirmation. The evidence is largely circumstantial but compelling. The polished gems he offered her is the most damning part. But Grace refused to name names and she was friendly and complimentary toward Roddenberry for the rest of her life. Maybe that was part of her 12 Step recovery (forgiveness) or maybe it wasn't him. People are free to draw their own conclusions. Nobody else has come forth to any great degree and they're both gone so I'm not sure it matters.

Even if it was Roddenberry, she painted him as acting on his impulses while he was drunk and felt awful afterwards. That's shitty (to be kind), absolutely and firing her to keep himself safe or so he doesn't have to face it is pretty f'n terrible. Bill Cosby, however, was accused and found guilty of decades of drugging woman's drinks and pressuring then into sex. I don't know how fair it is to put Roddenberry on the same level as that. YMMV.

If you want to forgive Roddenberry, that's fine. Grace Lee Whitney apparently did, so why second guess her?
But, if you're ready to forgive one man for doing a terrible thing, I really don't see that the other is unforgivably different.
Sterilizing both of their works is just a waste.

 

[Ssosmcin]

If you want to forgive Roddenberry, that's fine. Grace Lee Whitney apparently did, so why second guess her?
But, if you're ready to forgive one man for doing a terrible thing, I really don't see that the other is unforgivably different.
Sterilizing both of their works is just a waste.

Well, it's a matter of degree. One guy, who wasn't even ever actually named, drunkenly pressured a woman for sex.

The other was named by multiple victims and found guilty of drugging and raping them.

One person you are assuming is guilty, the other person was actually found and judged to be guilty in a court of law.

Also, it's not for me to forgive either man because neither one of them did anything to me personally.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

Yes, Cosby was found guilty.
And the one woman who did press charges waited 12 years before she decided to do so.
And then it was found that the evidence against him was obtained under false pretenses and the charges were overturned.

Now, if it's not for you to forgive either man, then it's not for you to sit in judgment either.
And all the folks turning their back on Cosby being cancelled are doing exactly that.

Look: It was over a decade before a mob decided to get Cosby.
Now, if he was alive, do you think Roddenberry could have survived such a mob?

Either we stand up for the folks who are being cancelled, or we just sit and let it happen.

Because, we've seen mobs. They're not picky about details. And they won't listen to reason when the defense is "He was drunk at the time. He didn't mean it when he raped her, wrote her off the show and fired her."

That's not the way mobs operate. They're after trophies, and the bigger the better. If he's a hero to a lot of people, Great! It'll make a big splash when we take him down!

Roddenberry is a big damn vulnerable target. If you accept that Cosby is a reasonable and legitimate target, then Roddenberry is on the hit list too.

 

[Ssosmcin]

But, again, a point you keep glossing over: nobody has named Roddenberry. Not even the victim. All fans are doing (and it's just fans to my knowledge) is drawing conclusions based on certain details. Not even Solow and Justman in their book claimed to know who it was.

Cosby was directly accused by multiple people. And he wasn't cleared, just released from prison.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

Nobody named Roddenberry.

In contrast, they're trying to take down Washington, Lincoln and Jefferson.
Do you think that defense will stop a mob?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Yes, Cosby was found guilty.
And the one woman who did press charges waited 12 years before she decided to do so.
And then it was found that the evidence against him was obtained under false pretenses and the charges were overturned.

I heard on the news that Cosby's conviction was overturned because his full confession was given under the promise that it would not be used in a criminal court. Later on, a new prosecutor decided not to honor that promise, and he took Cosby to criminal trial with the confession in hand. A higher court later decided the prosecutor can't do that.

I'm as alarmed as you are by online cancel culture and mob power, with politically motivated vendettas ruining people's lives. But as I understand it, the Cosby case is not a clear example of that. I don't think it was politically motivated, nor driven by the malicious glee mobs take in wrecking a target. Bill Cosby is just an American tragedy.

 

[1001001]

Come on, folks.

This Bill Cosby shit does not belong here. Feel free to discuss his case in Miscellaneous.

Let's drop it and move on....

Lt. Uhura?

 

[Forbin]

Thanks, I'd actually forgotten what the thread topic was!

 

[dupersuper]

Either we stand up for the folks who are being cancelled, or we just sit and let it happen.

You say that like Cosby's in trouble for tacky Twitter comments.

Thanks, I'd actually forgotten what the thread topic was!

Threads have topics?