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Lorca: Fans Will Have To Adjust

Hate-watching (a term I had never heard of before kirk55555 had brought it up) implies that you watch something that you are determined to hate, it implies that you have decided, beforehand, that you're going to hate something. The people who do this are self-proclaimed 'Über-Trekkies that stand by Gene's vision', but preconceptions and prejudice go against everything Gene ever stood for. I know we should all be open and kind to one another here, and I believe in that and I will live by that, but man: hating something you haven't seen yet is, as Spock would say, illogical. So I really hope that even the greatest pessimist will watch the pilot with an open mind and make judgment after actually seeing it.

Come to think of it, is there a thing as 'hate-eating'; someone who goes to a restaurant, orders something he has never eaten before, and proclaims beforehand 'I am hating this!' Wouldn't the people around him ask him: why did you order something you hate? And after he says 'I've never tried this before', wouldn't they ask back: but shouldn't you try it first before claiming you hate it?' If that person would then say 'no, 'cause it's got these green things on it and it's got this weird shape, so I'm hating this!' Then (if they're patient enough) the people would ask: 'But isn't about the taste and the way it's prepared: the flavours, the aroma, the combination of spices? You should really try it!' The guy then replies with: 'No, 'cause these green things and the shape are more than enough information for me, I've made up my mind: I HATE this!' He then takes a bite, walks away and leaves... only to come back the next week and repeat this cycle. Sounds crazy? ;)

It's almost impossible to go into a show or movie without some kind of preconception. If you see a movie that stars Larry the Cable Guy I think it's a safe bet that the movie will be bad, even before you see it. For me I usually feel this way about PG-13 Horror or most romantic comedies. You can be always be surprised but if it is bad it can still be fun as long as it's also not boring. I'm not sure why people would get this feeling from "Discovery" unless you really hated the Kelvin Universe movies. I understand why some are skeptical. That is where I am after Fuller's being fired and skeptical on another level in terms of it being part of the shared unviverse we have seen but to me that issue is less about quality and more about what place the show will have in the franchise. Something I know many don't care about, especially younger fans who I think judge the shows more on their individual quality and less on how they are part of some bigger shared universe. I think it might have to do with I think younger fans see Trek as something they like but maybe not the thing the like the most out of all their favorite genre shows. It's not necessary their first love.

Jason
 
Because he said one thing you don't like?

You're always so quick to judge and condemn, it's quite a sight.

It shows he has a bad attitude, and basically saying fans don't matter. I mean, actors being arrogant, superior asses isn't new, but being this blatant makes me actively dislike him. I won't, say, refuse to watch a movie because he's in it, but he's now a detriment to anything he's in because I know he's a complete ass in real life. Far from the worst to be fair, but if I know the person actively looks down on the people who watch his stuff I don't particularly feel like watching his stuff.

Also, I don't judge or condemn lightly. How fast depends on the evidence. He gave more then enough evidence of his terrible way of thinking.
 
It shows he has a bad attitude, and basically saying fans don't matter. I mean, actors being arrogant, superior asses isn't new, but being this blatant makes me actively dislike him. I won't, say, refuse to watch a movie because he's in it, but he's now a detriment to anything he's in because I know he's a complete ass in real life. Far from the worst to be fair, but if I know the person actively looks down on the people who watch his stuff I don't particularly feel like watching his stuff.

Also, I don't judge or condemn lightly. How fast depends on the evidence. He gave more then enough evidence of his terrible way of thinking.
Hmmm, something 'bout a pot and a kettle........? ;)
 
Hell, "The Cage" uniforms are VERY different from the TOS series uniforms.

Not to me they aren't. They have the same exact bottom and the top differs mostly in color and having a turtleneck vs. the black collar. Slightly smaller insignia, too. Nothing major.

Anyway, it's funny how so many of these debates wind up sort of veering into the whole "is this dress blue or black" debate. Everything is in the eye of the beholder. People have their own tolerance level for how far something can stray in look and feel and still seem like it's part of the same continuity. You can't really force people to expand or narrow that definition, but boy do people try anyway. I remember when the Axanar guys decided they were going with flatscreens instead of jelly buttons and I remember taking issue with their rationalizations but in retrospect what they were planning to do was mild compared to Discovery's stylistic overhaul.
 
I have certainly seen some folks get over-heated in these fan on fan discussions.
Here's my take. On one "side" there are fans who are not merely disgruntled by the apparent creative choices of a new Star Trek show (or film) they are SO angry that they want it all to fail, to go away, and Trek to either revert to something they like or go away forever.
That stance threatens - to some extent - the thing I love and enjoy. I am not going to be neutral in my replies or comments about "fans" who take such an extreme view, nor am I going to be neutral about other "fans" who complain that those who take such an extreme view are being treated poorly.
When you come by and poop on the lawn at the City Park, shame on you. When you set the lawn at the City Park on fire, I'm going to have to respond, and not in some neutral bland fashion, respecting your opinion and qualifying my comments "Well, I can certainly respect your desire to see the Park burn, and I know you are civic-minded, but I think parks should be fire-free."[/QUOTEI

If someone is angry I don't see anything wrong with them wanting to state it, as long as it doesn't get personal between fans. It is just a tv show in the end. Someone wanting to exaggerate or use a little hyperbole doesn't seem so bad. I think most people do realize that when people say things like "George Lucas destroyed my childhood" they are not speaking, literally. Since Trek in away belongs to everyone so it means everyone is going to have a equal opinion on it. Sometimes that is gushing praise,sometimes moderate debate and sometimes hyperbolic expressions of disapointment. Sometimes you might even get a little anger but even that I imagine is moderate to maybe the anger you will feel compared to people hurting you in real life or evil people doing evil things in the world.

Jason
 
And don't you think many fans have been overly hostile, arrogant and showing a bad attitude? Which might be what annoyed him? This isn't a one-way street.

Do we know if he was annoyed? Seems to me he was simply giving a opinion. I doubt the actor spends much time reading the internet to find out what the fans think. As for fans I have noticed that we kind of come in 3 categories. Those who like to complain a lot, those who like to complain bout those who complain or make fans look bad in their opinion because they feel it reflects on them and those who try to stay above it all.

Jason
 
It's almost impossible to go into a show or movie without some kind of preconception. If you see a movie that stars Larry the Cable Guy I think it's a safe bet that the movie will be bad, even before you see it. For me I usually feel this way about PG-13 Horror or most romantic comedies. You can be always be surprised but if it is bad it can still be fun as long as it's also not boring. I'm not sure why people would get this feeling from "Discovery" unless you really hated the Kelvin Universe movies. I understand why some are skeptical. That is where I am after Fuller's being fired and skeptical on another level in terms of it being part of the shared unviverse we have seen but to me that issue is less about quality and more about what place the show will have in the franchise. Something I know many don't care about, especially younger fans who I think judge the shows more on their individual quality and less on how they are part of some bigger shared universe. I think it might have to do with I think younger fans see Trek as something they like but maybe not the thing the like the most out of all their favorite genre shows. It's not necessary their first love.

Jason

Untrue, the first and third movies in the Pixar "Cars" franchise were pretty good...

:lol::biggrin:
 
Do we know if he was annoyed? Seems to me he was simply giving a opinion. I doubt the actor spends much time reading the internet to find out what the fans think. As for fans I have noticed that we kind of come in 3 categories. Those who like to complain a lot, those who like to complain bout those who complain or make fans look bad in their opinion because they feel it reflects on them and those who try to stay above it all.

Jason

There are two kinds of fans in the world: those who believe there are two kinds of fans in the world, and those who don't.

Kor
 
These discussions also seem to assume that there can only be two absolutes, either you must hate the new show with burning passion because it didn't replicate TOS look perfectly down to the wrinkles on the paper view screens, or you must unquestioningly love everything about it and be fine with all changes, including the Klingons being blue.
 
When he said about the changes...:

“I don’t mean to sound irreverent when I say I don’t care about the die-hard Trek fans, I only ‘don’t care’ about them in the sense that I know they’re all going to watch anyway. I look forward to having the fun of them being outraged, so they can sit up all night and talk about it with each other.”

...That sounds to me as if he is simply being a realist that there ARE changes that have been made and there WILL BE fans who are not comfortable with those changes. However, comfortable or not, the changes are what the changes are, and the fans need to uderstand that.

Would fans have been happier if Isaacs said nothing at all about the changes? Or if he said "Don't worry about the changes; everyone will be happy to see them".

I mean, Isaacs isn't an idiot. He can easily see just by browsing social media that there will in fact be people who are outraged at the changes -- and he is acknowledging that truth. I suppose he could have pretended that there weren't fans who were complaining about/will complain about the changes, but pretending this would not make it so.
 
Dear Mr. Isaacs---do you mind if I call you "blowhard"? But then, I'm just one of the little people, I guess, so pay me no mind.

Not that you were. Of course, it's not like you will be writing the words that come out of your mouth. Writing something people actually care to read takes talent, yes? And you...well, maybe if I had been born the "tall, handsome" type I'd be somewhere. Instead, I had to actually earn my way in society. You play at being someone who could do that kind of job. I'm came as close as anyone but an astronaut does. Kindly pound sand...blowhard.
 
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