Looking Back at S1

[The Wormhole]

t’s a little weird that neither Lorca nor Starfleet Command viewed the release of the tardigrade in the previous episode as a questionable offense.

Starfleet Command was uneasy with the tardigrade being on board the ship to begin with, so it makes sense they wouldn't raise much of a fuss over Ripper being released. As for Lorca, I imagine he likely took a pragmatic view of the matter. The tardigrade was dying anyway, so he'd lose access to it anyway. Now, though Stamets has tardigrade DNA in him, meaning he can still use the spore drive, which Lorca likely views as the best possible scenario under the circumstances.

The visual fx of the nebula are shit.

As are many of the FX shots in the first season.

Similarly in Picard, the way she says "the sheer fucking hubris" feels like it's done for almost shock value.

Actually, I find the swearing on Picard actually works reasonably well. The only reason the "sheer fucking hubris" line stands out is because it is a rather memorable phrase.

Though a curious decision made on Picard regarding the profanity I noticed is that it's usually only the new characters who swear, everyone from TNG (or Voyager, in Seven's case) who's brought back does not swear, with the one exception being in season 2 when Picard snaps "I'm too old for your bullshit, Q." Which I interpret as their attempt rationalize the lack of swearing in the other shows, we just followed characters who tend to avoid profanity.

Swearing in Trek always feels inorganic to me. The closest is Kelvin Kirk's "bullshit" line. The rest is adolescent style.

Reminds me of Doctor Who producer Russell T Davies talking about the DW spinoff Torchwood, which was aimed at an adult audience and therefore was allowed to use profanity. But after the first season he decided to stop including swear words since, in his opinion hearing profanity on television was ultimately just a distraction, shining a spotlight on the fact that "this show is aimed at adults" and didn't add anything else.

 

[Doctorossi]

Reminds me of Doctor Who producer Russell T Davies talking about the DW spinoff Torchwood, which was aimed at an adult audience and therefore was allowed to use profanity. But after the first season he decided to stop including swear words since, in his opinion hearing profanity on television was ultimately just a distraction, shining a spotlight on the fact that "this show is aimed at adults" and didn't add anything else.

With all due respect to RTD, I would call that a reasonable indictment of that use of profanity, not of the use of profanity in the abstract.

 

[Tuskin38]

Picard did say 'Shit' in French a couple times in TNG.

Worf and other Klingons have also sworn in Klingon, but that's a fictional language so I guess it doesn't count.

 

[fireproof78]

Reminds me of Doctor Who producer Russell T Davies talking about the DW spinoff Torchwood, which was aimed at an adult audience and therefore was allowed to use profanity. But after the first season he decided to stop including swear words since, in his opinion hearing profanity on television was ultimately just a distraction, shining a spotlight on the fact that "this show is aimed at adults" and didn't add anything else.

I think that's what happens with Star Trek at times. But, the other side of it is delivery. Shatner and Stewart and Spiner all have that real Shakespearian style emphasis on particular syllables that make it stand out. The way Kirk says "Klingon BasTARD" hits harder. The way Picard says "Not good enough DAMN IT!" stands out. Vs actors like Peter Weller or Chris Pine who have a bit more understated way of saying it: "Bullshit" just comes out. "That's a hell of an apology, son." Follows Weller's natural cadence.

I don't know. It's all a weird place, but not because Star Trek is swearing. Done that for a while. It's how it is inflected.

 

[Lord Garth]

Similarly in Picard, the way she says "the sheer fucking hubris" feels like it's done for almost shock value.

That one felt natural. If I was pissed off at someone, couldn't believe what they were doing, and didn't think very much of them, I'd say the same thing. Picard went barging in thinking he could be like TOS Movie Kirk and he's not. Clancy set him straight.

It's only "shocking" because we're not used to hearing the word "fucking" on Star Trek, and especially not in something associated with TNG.

Now, the second time Clancy dropped the F-bomb and told Picard to shut the fuck up, that one I cringed at. Not because of the "shock value" but because they turned it into a shtick. Like, "Here's the Admiral who dropped an F-bomb before, so we'll have her drop an F-bomb again just for laughs!"

I recently went to see an independent film called Tony Martone that's been doing the rounds in New England in the festival circuit, and they dropped 200 swears in the span of 60-something minutes. The movie wasn't really my thing, but I had to go because of networking and they were showing a trailer for one of my films (The Holy Maple Tree) where I had to speak about it on stage. You can look both of those films up on IMDB. Anyway, when they finally started playing Tony Martone, I got really bored, really fast, and killed time by counting how many swears there were and how many people got shot. It was a Mafia movie. If you want unnatural swearing, there's your unnatural swearing. It felt like half the script was F-bombs.

 

[Lord Garth]

I love "Lethe", but more for the Lorca/Cornwell storyline than the Burnham/Sarek one. It shows how manipulative Lorca was, Cornwell was determined to figure out what was going on with him, and the Klingons have never been scarier.

 

[eschaton]

I'm glad you're doing this. I should do a rewatch of Season 1 soon.

In general I thought that while Part 1 of the season was very...rough...in spots, I liked what they were doing overall. The wheels didn't really come off the bus for me until the final few episodes of the season. It felt like they told Michael's complete character arc in Part 1 and then...they didn't know what to do, and just decided to torture her emotionally.

 

[JamesRye]

I remember quite liking the first half of the season - but then it all went to pot. At first, you could see that they were trying to be Game of Thrones in Spaaaace and they were really leaning into what I guess they thought was 'adult and mature content'. Except without the clever writing that GOT had. The design and VFX are all over the place and vary from the sublime to the awful - that shot of the Glenn exploding was just terrible.

I remember watching Trekyards on YouTube. And the blokes face was priceless when he did his 'first reactions video'. He was trying to be so upbeat and positive. But he looked like someone had just burned down his house and stabbed his dog.

LOL, my son had just been born and I remember asking my wife to take a photo of us watching Trek for the first time together. So looking back at season 1 has some positives for me because it was a special time in my life. After it was over, she asked if I still wanted the photo. I said 'what do you mean'? She sort of frowned and asked if we were on the same page. She hated it straight away, but it took me until 1/4 of the way through Season 4 to disavow the show completely.

Oh yeah, and that Season 1 episode where they reference Elon Musk hasn't aged too well has it!

 

[Vger23]

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

So, this was my least-favorite episode of S1 when I first viewed it. But, upon re-watch, I don't think it's as bad as I originally though. Honestly, it's still a bit frustrating, but I think a large part of that is that I generally dislike the Trek trope of "main character behaves weird under alien influence" in my episodes, and this was definitely all about that.

The opening scene of the Discovery trying to help defend the besieged Gagarin is really quite good. I love Lorca in this scene, and his effort and reaction to their failure was one of the things I pointed to when I still believed there was no way he was "Evil Lorca."

Yes, there's the A-plot of the landing party on Pahvo with Saru doing "under the alien influence" stuff...but it's not as grating as I remember, and the B-plots are actually pretty interesting. The DASH Drive navigation issues continue to be a challenge, as now we have Paul needing to hide his side effects from Hugh Culber. It's clear that the jumps are having an impact on him similar to how the tardigrade had negative effects. This paves the way for some interesting interactions between Paul and Tilly, as well as the future of the arc.

We also have some good stuff with Kol and L'Rell on the Klingon front, as it turns out Admiral Cornwell is prisoner on the sarcophagus ship and L'Rell is trying to use her to escape or defect (or...is it a ruse??).

The episode ends ominously, with the peace-loving Phavans sending a message both to Starfleet and the Klingons, apparently hoping to broker peace and harmony between the two warring factions.

It wasn't my favorite, but it's aged better. It's another incredibly strong performance from a far-less featured Jason Isaacs...Doug Jones is pretty good, and I like Shazad Latif's performance as well, particularly when he is trying to distract Saru. It sets us up nice for the work he does on Tyler/Voq's trauma in the coming episodes.

Into the Forrest I Go

This was my favorite S1 episode back when it first aired...and I think, at least up to this point, it's still in that category. I don't know...people gave this season a lot of shit back in the day it first was available, and still do now...but I just don't see it. Even with hindsight and objectivity based on diminished bias and the passage of time, I still think this is a damn entertaining season of Trek. Hey, to each their own I guess. But so far I am actually enjoying most of these episodes more now than I did in first-run, not less.

Anyway, this outing is really the mid-season finale / epic cliff hanger. The plot is pretty straightforward, with the Discovery needing to walk the line in finding a way to defend Pahvo, from Kol's Ship of the Dead while also trying to justify this by devising a method to defeat the Klingon cloaking tech. Stamets' situation has continued to deteriorate...and the plan requires him to commit an insane amount of energy and risk to making 140 "micro jumps." Further, the plan requires a small strike team to beam aboard the Ship of the Dead while it is cloaking to plant sensors to help develop the algorithm necessary to crack the cloak.

We get some amazing performances out of the cast, with Jason Isaacs, Shazad Latif and Anthony Rapp. Latif, in particular, has some very heavy lifting to do here as his PTSD triggers upon exposure to L'Rell aboard the Klingon ship. Isaacs is unbelievably excellent in selling Lorca as a guy dedicated to doing the right thing, even at a high risk. He comes off as so earnest and supportive of Stamets, even though we know now how unbelievably manipulative it all is. With all the action and spectacle of this episode, the interactions between Stamets and Lorca really are the best parts. We get a cool battle between Kol and Burnham, we see the Discovery in action and jumping around like a pissed off hornet, and we get some gruesome flashbacks of what Tyler apparently went through at L'Rell's hands...which is clearly now much more than standard "torture" and her taking "a particular interest in him."

It's a great frigging episode. It ends on a brutal note, with Stamets' future and well-being uncertain, and the Discovery jolted into parts unknown. This was a legit 10/10 for me at the time...that may have been a hair generous...but it's definitely no lower than a 9. It would have been an 8.5, but the sight of Kol looking out the window as his ship blows up around him...yeah...that was good stuff.

Thoughts?

 

[Gul Sengosts]

It felt like they told Michael's complete character arc in Part 1 and then...they didn't know what to do, and just decided to torture her emotionally.

Just you wait for season 2...

Oh yeah, and that Season 1 episode where they reference Elon Musk hasn't aged too well has it!

I remember that back then I already thought that was really stupid. Someone apparently was a fan of Elon Musk and decided to name him along with the Wright Brothers, for something he might or might not achieve in the future. Staggeringly premature even without considering his more recent actions. I'm pretty sure they wish they hadn't done that...

 

[Vger23]

Just you wait for season 2...


I remember that back then I already thought that was really stupid. Someone apparently was a fan of Elon Musk and decided to name him along with the Wright Brothers, for something he might or might not achieve in the future. Staggeringly premature even without considering his more recent actions. I'm pretty sure they wish they hadn't done that...

It was an ad lib by Jason Isaacs.

There’s a thread on this already if you guys want to talk about Elon Musk. I’d rather keep it out of here.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/musk-and-discovery.312748/

 

[The Wormhole]

I generally dislike the Trek trope of "main character behaves weird under alien influence" in my episodes, and this was definitely all about that.

This time they at least inverted the trope somewhat in that Saru wasn't actually under influence but rather was acting of his own accord.

Into the Forrest I Go

This is probably one of the better finales done on Disco or any of the other modern Treks. And it isn't even a season finale, but rather a midseason. Season finales really are the weakness of the current era, but at least with this episode, a midseason finale they were eating their Wheaties and managed to do a pretty good job on a resolution.

 

[fireproof78]

The opening scene of the Discovery trying to help defend the besieged Gagarin is really quite good. I love Lorca in this scene, and his effort and reaction to their failure was one of the things I pointed to when I still believed there was no way he was "Evil Lorca."

Hands down, still one of my favorite scenes. Even without knowing evil Lorca he still rides that edge of "hardass captain" and "manipulative psycho." With more evidence piling on from previous episodes, it still shows how Lorca is still able to be an effective leader even outside his own universe.

Isaacs is unbelievably excellent in selling Lorca as a guy dedicated to doing the right thing, even at a high risk. He comes off as so earnest and supportive of Stamets, even though we know now how unbelievably manipulative it all is. With all the action and spectacle of this episode, the interactions between Stamets and Lorca really are the best parts. We get a cool battle between Kol and Burnham, we see the Discovery in action and jumping around like a pissed off hornet, and we get some gruesome flashbacks of what Tyler apparently went through at L'Rell's hands...which is clearly now much more than standard "torture" and her taking "a particular interest in him."

It's a great frigging episode. It ends on a brutal note, with Stamets' future and well-being uncertain, and the Discovery jolted into parts unknown. This was a legit 10/10 for me at the time...that may have been a hair generous...but it's definitely no lower than a 9. It would have been an 8.5, but the sight of Kol looking out the window as his ship blows up around him...yeah...that was good stuff.

Can't add anything further. The character dynamics are excellent.

 

[Vger23]

Despite Yourself

I'm one of those people who thought the Mirror Universe arc was really quite good in DSC. This is the episode we find out where we are, and start to piece together how we are going to cope with it. I actually liked this one better this time around. Again, Lorca plays it really well....so manipulative, but also feigning disbelief and confusion at various points. As serious of a situation our crew finds themselves in, there's quite a bit of levity in this one, including

• All of the nicknames for Tilly's MU counterpart, with "Captain Killy" obviously taking the cake
• Tilly's discomfort at having to act badass wtih the other Imperial Star Ship
• Lorca's Scottish Accent
• Lorca's reaction to finding out Tilly is a captain

Frakes directs these comedy scenes with a lot of confidence, and the timing and physical acting are really great too. Tyler is starting to fall apart, and Latif's performance is again very good. Watching him unexpectedly murder Culber is much less difficult this time around, knowing that this only leads to a really good arc for the character, and some meaty things for actor Wilson Cruz (who is always excellent in this show) to do.

I think it's a little odd that the Discovery has to be transformed inside-and-out, all the way down to badges on the uniforms and insignia on the computer displays...but I guess it's good to be ready, just in case. It's interesting to see the fate of the Defiant from ENT factor in so heavily to the arc now, and the plan to return to the Shenzhou to retrieve more information about her crossing is a fascinating set-up.

Despite some lightheartedness, the end scene where Burnham is forced to kill Connor is pretty sobering...this is NOT a place to take lightly, and evil is around every corner.

The Wolf Inside

I remember not liking this one as much as the previous two outings. but it's really quite good as well. It's a little slower and more deliberate, but that actually works to its advantage. A lot of what makes this episode work is that it really sells the oppressive and violent nature of the MU. Our characters spend a lot of time contemplating their humanity, and how being forced to pose as savages and murderers here is slowing chipping away at who they are.

There's some great stuff on the surface of Harlak with the "Federation-like" resistance led by Voq's MU counterpart, that sort of harkens back to things on DS9. We finally find the truth out about Tyler as well.

There are some weaknesses, though. For example, it's a bit contrived that Burnham thinks that talking to Voq will somehow give her the key to learning to negotiate with the Klingons in the Prime Universe. I don't know about that one...seems like more than a stretch. Also, it's really unclear and convoluted just what kind of re-assignment procedure Voq/Tyler has undergone. They put Voq's personality into Tyler? They transformed Voq's body? They put parts of Voq into Tyler's body? IDK bro....I think they needed to take another pass or three at that.

In the end, Stamets encounters his mirror self in the network, and we get the reveal that in the MU, Phillipa Gorgeiou is the Terran Emperor (which came as a complete surprise to me at the time, as I figured Michelle Yeoh was a short-timer/guest star only).

 

[Tuskin38]

Fun fact, the ISS Shenzhou has a giant Terran Empire emblem on the top of the saucer, but this is the only view of it we get in the show.

Eaglemoss did a model of it though where you can see it better

They put Voq's personality into Tyler? They transformed Voq's body?

These two

 

[fireproof78]

Despite some lightheartedness, the end scene where Burnham is forced to kill Connor is pretty sobering...this is NOT a place to take lightly, and evil is around every corner.

The applause by the bridge crew is chilling.

 

[Vger23]

Vaulting Ambition

Perhaps the weakest of the MU arc in S1, this definitely isn't a "bad" episode, but whereas the previous outing shed some of the camp and excess associated with this setting, this one fully embraces it, and it fails as much as it succeeds.

We have a classic A/B story structure here, with the A-story consisting of Michael and Lorca's arrival on the ISS Charon and the clash with Emperor Georgiou and the B story taking place back on the Discovery / in the mycelial network with Stamets. The B-plot is really the more compelling of the two stories, as we see Stamets starting to come to some critical revelations and we have him and Hugh interacting in some very well-done scenes. We also get treated to Tyler's continued suffering as a hybrid of Voq, and the crew finding out that he indeed murdered Culber.

Note: When I did the recap of "The Wolf Inside" I forgot to mention that it made no sense, at least to me, how the Discovery was in perfect position to rescue Tyler after he was spaced by the Shenzhou.

The A-plot is interesting and fun, but somewhat less effective. Georgiou is a little "over the top" in her characterization, and the Kelpian Stew is probably something the franchise could have done without. Lorca continues to steal the show, but alas I have mixed emotions about revealing that he is indeed his MU counterpart. I do think his escape scene where he tricks Captain Maddox is still pretty badass, though. The other badass moment is when Georgiou kills everyone with the space throwing star through all their heads. Great stuff.

Thoughts?

 

[The Wormhole]

the Kelpian Stew is probably something the franchise could have done without.

It has led to the creation of some fun memes and in-jokes on the internet over the years, though.

 

[drt]

The problem with the Kelpian stew is it makes Mirror Georgiou completly irredeemable in many fans' eyes. Lose it and I'd bet almost no one has issues with her being part of the crew back in the Prime Universe. Which is sort of funny, photon torpedo thousands from orbit? No problem. But eat a couple of aliens...

 

[Vger23]

The problem with the Kelpian stew is it makes Mirror Georgiou completly irredeemable in many fans' eyes. Lose it and I'd bet almost no one has issues with her being part of the crew back in the Prime Universe. Which is sort of funny, photon torpedo thousands from orbit? No problem. But eat a couple of aliens...

That’s a really good point. I wonder if the scene was written before they had solidified their long-term plans for the character?