Looking Back at S1

[Vger23]

What's Past Is Prologue

The MU arc wraps up with a massive "bang" here in a fun, action-heavy outing that may honestly have been better served as the season finale than what took place two episodes later. There is a LOT of great stuff in this episode, but a lot of questionable stuff as well, and in a way it's a bit of a microcosm of this entire season of DSC in that it is wildly entertaining and fun, but doesn't hold up well to intense scrutiny if you decide to hold it accountable.

Let's start with what works (and works really well), which are the action sequences and the exciting pacing. There's some great stuff here. The face-off between Lorca's forces and Georgiou's forces, with Mirror Stamets's forcefield is pretty awesome. The end conflict in the throne room is great, and Discovery's attack on the ISS Charon is movie-quality stuff. Also, any excuse to see Michelle Yeoh in action is always a treat.

Also working well here are Saru's motivational speech to the crew about how the Discovery can no longer be under Lorca's influence. There's an uplifting quality to this scene, as the various members of the crew start working together to solve the problem. Stamets piloting the ship through the infinitely complex network is also a thrill ride.

What doesn't work is the somewhat sophomoric treatment of Gabriel Lorca. This was a great character performed by a very talented actor, and in the end, there's no redeeming nuances to his character or motivation at all. He's just a caricature bad guy who ends up being pretty much an irredeemable creep. Despite getting a great line "It's poetic justice, don't you think? A scientist destroyed by his own creation? Just kidding. I hate poetry," he also gets the unbelievably shitty and unimaginative line of "together will make the Empire glorious again." C'mon Star Trek....you can be more complex and creative than this, right?? I really wanted something redeemable here. Like, he had learned from his experience in the PU to respect and even value some of the ways of the Federation. Or maybe his platform against Georgeiou was a more honorable one (and not a LESS honorable one)? I don't know...I loved this episode, but I hated what they did to arguably the best character the series has produced in 4 seasons thus far.

I do think the series (and indeed, the franchise) has missed a MASSIVE opportunity by not letting us know who the Prime Lorca was and how his story played out. I still hold out hope that someday we'll get to see (and please don't mention that Star Trek Online addresses it, I can't imagine anything I'd find less interesting or meaningful).

Anyway...thoughts??

 

[Tuskin38]

and please don't mention that Star Trek Online addresses it

I won't, because it doesn't address it. The swap happens off the screen.

There is a prequel novel set during the Tarsus IV incident that has Prime Lorca, but he's almost as much as a hard ass as Mirror Lorca is when pretending to be Prime Lorca.

 

[eschaton]

What doesn't work is the somewhat sophomoric treatment of Gabriel Lorca. This was a great character performed by a very talented actor, and in the end, there's no redeeming nuances to his character or motivation at all. He's just a caricature bad guy who ends up being pretty much an irredeemable creep. Despite getting a great line "It's poetic justice, don't you think? A scientist destroyed by his own creation? Just kidding. I hate poetry," he also gets the unbelievably shitty and unimaginative line of "together will make the Empire glorious again." C'mon Star Trek....you can be more complex and creative than this, right?? I really wanted something redeemable here. Like, he had learned from his experience in the PU to respect and even value some of the ways of the Federation. Or maybe his platform against Georgeiou was a more honorable one (and not a LESS honorable one)? I don't know...I loved this episode, but I hated what they did to arguably the best character the series has produced in 4 seasons thus far.

I thought they should have set up Lorca to be an authoritarian, but not racist. After all, while the Terran Empire in the era of Enterprise kept Vulcans as slaves, Mirror Mirror directly showcased Spock serving - and DS9 eventually had him coming to lead the entire Terran Empire. The question of how the Empire pivoted from human-centric to equal-opportunity just isn't really explored at all. Lorca would have experience in the PU working alongside non-humans, and realize that they could be useful tools to keep order rather than just a rabble that needed to be oppressed.

 

[Tuskin38]

But then Lorca refers to Georgiou as soft.. If Georgiou is an example of a Terran softy, I'd hate to the see the other guys.

 

[eschaton]

But then Lorca refers to Georgiou as soft.. If Georgiou is an example of a Terran softy, I'd hate to the see the other guys.

Yeah, it was dumb. It was as if they only figured out the episode prior they wanted Michelle Yeoh to stick around, so they started rehabilitating MU Georgiou in an unearned fashion, which meant that (since she was in conflict with Lorca) he had to be unbridled shit.

 

[fireproof78]

But then Lorca refers to Georgiou as soft.. If Georgiou is an example of a Terran softy, I'd hate to the see the other guys.

Probably because she was willing to consider aliens from a different point of view, rather than the human first mentality in the Terran Empire. Georgiou is just a reflection that the Empire could change, which is something espoused in the original "Mirror, Mirror" episode of Spock being willing to make changes to the Empire as well when inspired by Kirk to do so. That wouldn't be possible if there were not individuals who thought such change could be effected by a person. Georgiou has as much capacity for change as Mirror Spock.

 

[eschaton]

Probably because she was willing to consider aliens from a different point of view, rather than the human first mentality in the Terran Empire. Georgiou is just a reflection that the Empire could change, which is something espoused in the original "Mirror, Mirror" episode of Spock being willing to make changes to the Empire as well when inspired by Kirk to do so. That wouldn't be possible if there were not individuals who thought such change could be effected by a person. Georgiou has as much capacity for change as Mirror Spock.

But she didn't get the chance to make any "reforms." Whoever (slightly) moderated the Terran Empire by the time of TOS, it wasn't anyone we saw onscreen.

One aspect of the MU arc I absolutely hated on Discovery was how "small universe" it was. I mean:

• MU Georgiou - Empress
• MU Burnham - Georgiou's adopted daughter
• Lorca - MU Burham's lover/rival to Georgiou
• MU Stamets - Most important science guy in the MU
• MU Tilly - Captain Killy
• Voq - Leader of the resistance.

Sure, some of these things are a bit forgivable given Lorca himself sought out PU Michael. Not to mention weird coincidences happen all the time in the MU - it's central to the concept. But the scale seemed better in earlier outings. In Mirror Mirror, we were just dealing with one ship. In DS9 people like Intendant Kira were local heavies, but not like the rulers of the quadrant (even when Worf was brought in they kept it vague what his rank really meant). In ENT it was goofy how Archer was vying to become emperor (and Hoshi won) but at least there was the excuse that the Terran Empire was still pretty small and the it was still the flagship.

The biggest issue though is tone, IMHO. The MU is such a ridiculous concept - it's goofy comic book fun! Yet the four-part arc took itself deadly serious. Yeah, Mirror Mirror was also a serious look at grimdark, but it was before the "small quadrant" aspects of the setting became clear. It works in isolation as a dark mirror on Star Trek as a result.

In the end, I can't look at anything that involved the MU in Discovery as anything other than some bizarre stage play. I just can't suspend disbelief. Which is a shame, because with a bit more worldbuilding it would be awesome. But a recurring issue with Season 1 was the same small cast of characters did absolutely everything, and the show as super claustrophobic/they seldom got off the ship.

 

[fireproof78]

But she didn't get the chance to make any "reforms." Whoever (slightly) moderated the Terran Empire by the time of TOS, it wasn't anyone we saw onscreen.

Obviously. I feel that's the point.

The biggest issue though is tone, IMHO. The MU is such a ridiculous concept - it's goofy comic book fun! Yet the four-part arc took itself deadly serious. Yeah, Mirror Mirror was also a serious look at grimdark, but it was before the "small quadrant" aspects of the setting became clear. It works in isolation as a dark mirror on Star Trek as a result.

Well, you're issues are yours and not mine. I love the MU as a concept, as a comic book concept it really shines through in the ridiculousness nature yet played completely straight. Of course it's ridiculous that these exact same people would be together. that the chain of events would be so close, but that's the suspension of disbelief hook with the concept. If it doesn't work for you, then I guess it doesn't work. But I freaking love it, the way Discovery handles it and the crew. It's fun.

Mileage will vary.

But a recurring issue with Season 1 was the same small cast of characters did absolutely everything, and the show as super claustrophobic/they seldom got off the ship.

Again, this is something I see as a nonissue. Maybe I've watched fewer shows, but the ones I do enjoy are ones were the small little niche group handles everything. Star Trek kind of trades on that with the only ship in the quadrant trope. So, I don't find it any more egregious than before at least for my money.

 

[Vger23]

I’ve always thought of the MU as being a universe that, amongst infinite parallel realms, is the universe that has the most consistency between living sentient beings as ours. And, that somehow is why crossover events are most common with this universe.

It’s a stretch, but it explains stuff like small universe syndrome and similar foolish things you have to ignore to enjoy these episodes.

 

[eschaton]

Again, this is something I see as a nonissue. Maybe I've watched fewer shows, but the ones I do enjoy are ones were the small little niche group handles everything. Star Trek kind of trades on that with the only ship in the quadrant trope. So, I don't find it any more egregious than before at least for my money.

Again, this was an issue beyond the MU - and I recognize that it was ultimately budgetary, since Fuller blew his load on expensive pre-production and flying Yeoh and SMG out to Jordan for like five minutes of filming in the first episode, but you can really see how the production limitations of the show - the reliance upon standing sets, and few guest characters - held the show back in Season 1.

If it was a very narrowly-focused character-based show, dealing with the rise, fall, and rise again of Michael, all of this would be fine. But the show had ambitions of telling the story of the Klingon War, and...it just didn't. Like, there were only four Klingon characters (T'Kuvma, L'Rell, Voq, and Kol) across all of Season 1. We are supposedly with the ship most integral to the entire war effort, but all the important battles happen offscreen; either between episodes or simply told to us. We get no "boots on the ground" perspective on the human toll of the war. It just felt like the season lost the thread at some point; and absolutely like they lacked the resources to finish the story that Fuller set out to originally tell.

 

[fireproof78]

Again, this was an issue beyond the MU - and I recognize that it was ultimately budgetary, since Fuller blew his load on expensive pre-production and flying Yeoh and SMG out to Jordan for like five minutes of filming in the first episode, but you can really see how the production limitations of the show - the reliance upon standing sets, and few guest characters - held the show back in Season 1.

If it was a very narrowly-focused character-based show, dealing with the rise, fall, and rise again of Michael, all of this would be fine. But the show had ambitions of telling the story of the Klingon War, and...it just didn't. Like, there were only four Klingon characters (T'Kuvma, L'Rell, Voq, and Kol) across all of Season 1. We are supposedly with the ship most integral to the entire war effort, but all the important battles happen offscreen; either between episodes or simply told to us. We get no "boots on the ground" perspective on the human toll of the war. It just felt like the season lost the thread at some point; and absolutely like they lacked the resources to finish the story that Fuller set out to originally tell.

I mean, I don't disagree I wouldn't have minded seeing more of the war and maybe held on to the MU until Season 2. But, I didn't have an issue with the limited perspective either. It actually was a good reminder that in wars the people out there don't see the whole picture but get a very limited view of conflict, contact and what it means. It's why I actually don't mind the reveal at the end because it feels very shocking that it's going so badly when you feel like you might have an edge. Again, one of those aspects that feels closer to real life than the dramatic presentation and sterility of war in TV production.

Mileage will vary.

 

[Lord Garth]

Ultimately the first season was about Burnham facing a No-Win Scenario ("The Vulcan Hello" & "Battle at the the Binary Stars"), the Federation trying to end what was started there (the Klingon War) by utilizing someone outside the box (Georgiou from The Mirror Universe) to fix it, and then Burnham actually thinking outside the box to actually end it with her own solution.

The Mirror Universe Arc was a necessary part of Season 1 in order for the overall story arc to work.

DSC Season 1 was a very unconventional season of Star Trek and I'm glad it returned to television with that because they'd never be able to do it now, where Star Trek -- all of Star Trek -- has moved back into something more conventional, just five different flavors of it.

 

[Vger23]

The War Without, The War Within

This is a tougher episode to judge on its own merits, because it serves primarily as a "bridge" from the MU arc to the season finale, so there are a number of "loose ends" to wrap up and a number of other important pieces to position before we can move into the final episode.

I like the sense of desperation and hopelessness that is portrayed, shown simply and very effectively in the way Starfleet reacts upon finding the newly (but 9 months late) returned USS Discovery. It sets the table for the ethical question of "do desperate times truly call for desperate measures" that really is the theme of these last 2 episodes. There's some awesome stuff here, as always. The terraforming mission is really cool. Some of the emotional beats between Tyler and Burnham as well as the confrontation between Tyler and Stamets are well done. Cornwell is intense as always, and Jayne Brooks' performance is VERY good...a mix of fear, desperation, and determination.

There are some things that are really silly, though. Starfleet's genocide plan does, even for DSC, seem a little over-the-top. Putting MU Georgieu in charge of the mission seems....absolutely insane and completely unlikely, even in the most dire of circumstances.

Also, I mentioned earlier that finding out more about PU Lorca is a huge missed opportunity. Equally wasted is an opportunity to see the MU ISS Discovery arriving, Captain Killy in command, in our universe.

Anyway, it's an episode that does what it needs to do in order to position things for the final showdown.

Thoughts??

 

[Lord Garth]

Back-tracking a little bit to say: I loved the cilffhanger when they returned back from the Mirror Universe and it looks like, "The Klingons have won the war!" At that point, you're wondering, "What are they going to do? Are they going to take back the Federation from the Klingon Empire? Are they going to undo everything through time-travel? Are they retconning things? What are they going to do?"

In this episode itself: I enjoyed Georgiou being revealed as the new Captain of Discovery. The black humor that arose from that situation was great.

I like the sense of desperation and hopelessness that is portrayed, shown simply and very effectively in the way Starfleet reacts upon finding the newly (but 9 months late) returned USS Discovery. It sets the table for the ethical question of "do desperate times truly call for desperate measures" that really is the theme of these last 2 episodes. There's some awesome stuff here, as always. The terraforming mission is really cool. Some of the emotional beats between Tyler and Burnham as well as the confrontation between Tyler and Stamets are well done. Cornwell is intense as always, and Jayne Brooks' performance is VERY good...a mix of fear, desperation, and determination.

Also, I mentioned earlier that finding out more about PU Lorca is a huge missed opportunity. Equally wasted is an opportunity to see the MU ISS Discovery arriving, Captain Killy in command, in our universe.

I agree with these.

 

[fireproof78]

There are some things that are really silly, though. Starfleet's genocide plan does, even for DSC, seem a little over-the-top. Putting MU Georgieu in charge of the mission seems....absolutely insane and completely unlikely, even in the most dire of circumstances.

Also, I mentioned earlier that finding out more about PU Lorca is a huge missed opportunity. Equally wasted is an opportunity to see the MU ISS Discovery arriving, Captain Killy in command, in our universe.

Can't disagree with any of this. As much as I welcome Georgiou's growth and change her being in charge is straining credulity too much.

Similarly, an invasion by the Terran Empire sounds like a fun opportunity.

 

[Vger23]

Can't disagree with any of this. As much as I welcome Georgiou's growth and change her being in charge is straining credulity too much.

Similarly, an invasion by the Terran Empire sounds like a fun opportunity.

As much as I love Georgiou and as much as I love DSC, this one always seemed a little too kooky. I am a fan of the growth she experiences over the next 2 seasons...but at this stage of the game, it was a lot to swallow.

But...it WAS fun!

 

[fireproof78]

As much as I love Georgiou and as much as I love DSC, this one always seemed a little too kooky. I am a fan of the growth she experiences over the next 2 seasons...but at this stage of the game, it was a lot to swallow.

But...it WAS fun!

That was definitely the best part. I loved the uncertainty and the fun of it all. It was very entertaining.

 

[Lord Garth]

My theory has been that during the first season they were trying to avoid anything associated with the TNG Era shows, so when they were looking at things from TOS -- given it was set so close to it -- they were looking into things associated with TOS that the Kelvin Films either hadn't touched upon or only hinted at.

Into Darkness mentions Harry Mudd but we never see him. One of the major plot points is Admiral Marcus preparing for a potential war with the Klingons. Again, something that doesn't actually end up happening in those films.

So, in Discovery, we actually see Harry Mudd and they actually have the Klingon War. These are things DSC could touch upon since the movies hadn't and weren't going to. The Mirror Universe was also something that was never going to be seen in the films. These all made sure that DSC wasn't covering the same ground as the films and made them different.

One Easter Egg. In DS9, the Breen attack Earth in the seventh season. As Captain Sisko and General Martok are looking at the devastation, Martok says that even the Klingons never struck right on Earth or near Starfleet Command. In DSC, the Klingons are about to attack Earth, but then The War ends before they get a chance to.

 

[The Wormhole]

One Easter Egg. In DS9, the Breen attack Earth in the seventh season. As Captain Sisko and General Martok are looking at the devastation, Martok says that even the Klingons never struck right on Earth or near Starfleet Command. In DSC, the Klingons are about to attack Earth, but then The War ends before they get a chance to.

Thing is, Martok's exact wording is that the Klingons never attempted to attack Earth. Which is kind of at odds with the Klingons having a beachhead within the Sol system and a Klingon fleet making it to Earth orbit, which sounds like an attempted attack to me.

But then, I guess this is where the whole erase the official records at the end of season 2 comes in.

 

[Lord Garth]

Thing is, Martok's exact wording is that the Klingons never attempted to attack Earth. Which is kind of at odds with the Klingons having a beachhead within the Sol system and a Klingon fleet making it to Earth orbit, which sounds like an attempted attack to me.

But then, I guess this is where the whole erase the official records at the end of season 2 comes in.

Here's another explanation:

Klingon History Books aren't very reliable. Remember in "Unification" when Worf said that Gowron has been re-writing history saying that Gowron never mentions the Federation's help in the Klingon Civil War? And that was with something that happened recently!

Martok doesn't look old enough to have been around in mid-23rd Century, so I'm guessing the history he was taught was filled with propaganda, exaggeration, and embellishment. If it's only an attempted attack, they're not going to mention it. They only like to talk about stuff they went through with.