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Spoilers Loki season one discussion thread

All of that sounds good but it keeps coming back to who determines what they're "suppose to do." How is that criteria determined?
What I imagine is, the founder of the TVA is Kang or some Kang-like being that wants to control all available timelines, not just one. The "prime" timeline is the most vital because that is where this leader originates so it needs to be protected. Timelines or individual Variants that threaten the prime timeline, or the "friendly" variant timelines are the ones that need pruning.

So your criteria (according to my imagination) would be the other timelines stay out of conflict with the prime, but are available to be brought into the "time empire." Seems like something Kang would do.
 
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Ok my wider understanding of the comics is limited, but I have googled Kang and it seems odd to drop Kang in without us seeing the F4 and Reed Richards in the MCU first given Kang's origins?
IDK - Overall it's no worse than dropping in the Black Panther, or Klaw, or especially the Inhumans (especially Crystal) without any reference to the Fantastic Four whatsoever. Until they killed him off, The intellectual level of Tony Stark was pretty much on par with Reed Richards; and Stark was basically coming up with every single crazy invention <---- which had also been Reed Richards stock and trade in the MU of the comics.

So they did what they had to until they got rights to the Fantastic Four. That said as a hardcore Fantastic Four fan who really enjoyed the silver age sixties stuff; I really hope the MCU does them right and does them proud, but we'll see.
 
That was surprisingly useful (and not that annoying) and he pointed out a ton of Easter eggs that I missed, both the obvious ones I should've spotted and those I would've never realized were anything at all.

Surprisingly, and I thought that he was hinting at it early on, he didn't draw on the possible connection to something I joked about in the Marvel thread but now feels...possible? The shimmering colors around the castle that Loki and Sylvie heads towards are awfully similar to that in the Quantum Realm. So perhaps this Void (and maybe also the TVA as I jokingly suggested before I saw that scene again) is actually in the Quantum Realm? That would be yet another connection towards Kang (considering we know he'll be in Quantumania) that seems awfully coincidental if he's not actually revealed as the man behind the curtain.

That said, this guy's theory that Classic Loki is actually the man behind the curtain also has merit and makes more sense thematically with the show. So maybe it's actually Classic Loki...but then the post-credits scene shows us our first glimpse of Kang, which demonstrates in some way that he was connected to the events of this show. Perhaps the fall of the TVA and opening up of the "Sacred" timeline allows Kang to begin his conquering?

As I also mused in the Marvel thread, I noticed when I rewatched the first What If...? trailer the other day that The Watcher refers to "...these vast new realities...", which makes me suspect that What If...? happens as a direct consequence of the concluding events of this season, whether it's because of Kang, Classic Loki, or whomever else.

Never feel bad about missing things. There's decades of comic book related stuff that very few people would have read in it's entirety. I read comics for 25-30 years and prior and subsequent stuff would be unknown to me.
 
I don't feel bad about missing the ones I didn't realize were anything. I feel bad about missing things like the Sphinx's intact nose, Yellowjacket's head, and the TVA lunch trays!
 
I don't feel bad about missing the ones I didn't realize were anything. I feel bad about missing things like the Sphinx's intact nose, Yellowjacket's head, and the TVA lunch trays!
Back in the day I was really into Dark Horse comics, especially Badger, Ghost, Sable, and quite a few others.

This puts me in the mood to open some of my boxes and give them another read. That was good stuff.

Oh, and Laser Eraser and Axel Pressbutton. That was Eclipse comics. Man, I loved that series.

There's a lot more comics history than a few Easter eggs we catch or miss in this wonderful series. I love this series and all the details, but I'd have missed more if hadn't got into titles besides Marvel and DC.
 
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The show may not come out and say it, but I'm suspecting more than more that Sylvie's nexus event may have been her decision to be a hero rather than a villain. When she was arrested she was playing with a Valkyrie toy, so maybe that moment would have been what set her off on the path to being that timeline's Valkyrie?
It's established that variants can *exist* so long as their actions don't move a branch close to the red line, which explains how the variants can look so different before they get pruned. Classic Loki was seemingly left alone for centuries and it's only when he attempted to leave isolation (where he could again affect events around him) that the TVA noticed him.
So similarly, Sylvie presenting as female wasn't in and of itself a nexus event, but her desire to be a hero was, because Lokis are "supposed" to be villains.
I'm working on making a replica of Sylvie's crown.
View attachment 23001
View attachment 23002
The horns need more work, but I think the crown will work.
I think your biggest engineering challenge there is going to be getting the horns to attach and not "flop". Ideally you'd probably want at least the lower portion of the horns and the part of the band they attach to be all one solid piece, but that would probably require either 3D printing or old school (and even more expensive) injection-moulding. On the more affordable end of the spectrum, maybe use epoxy resin to reinforce the join and build a wire skeleton to support the horns under the foam?
Did they ever explain what causes the Lokis to look different? My first assumption was they're allowed to live and grow up until they cause a nexus event, and once the timeline is reset a new version appears. Or perhaps the TVA allow multiple timelines to exist as long as they go according to plan, then they get reset when a nexus event occurs, but that seems at odds with their mandate of keeping a sole sacred timeline.
In the mythology at least, Loki being a trickster is also a shape-shifter (though IIRC so is Odin, who's a bit like Zeus in that regard if you follow my meaning.) However, it's a bit ambiguous as to how that works in the context of the MCU since these Lokis all start out as cast of runts of Laufey, Frost Giant King of Jotunheim and I'm fairly sure that none of the frost giants every displayed shape-shifting abilities (not even when they infiltrated Odin's weapons vault, which would be the ideal time to do so.)

It's established that Loki learned magic from Frigga, which seems to be mostly illusion based but also extends to enchantment; affecting the mind, and conjuration; creating/altering matter like say making a blanket, daggers etc seemingly out of thin air. So shape-shifting could have been one of them too I suppose? I mean it's essentially a combination of illusion projection, conjuration and duplication casting (which as Loki took pains to explain is a totally different power.)
 
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As Loki took great pains to explain his power, when Mobius was pruned I first thought that had anticipated that action and created a duplicate Mobius.
 
It's established that Loki learned magic from Frigga, which seems to be mostly illusion based but also extends to enchantment; affecting the mind, and conjuration; creating/altering matter like say making a blanket, daggers etc seemingly out of thin air. So shape-shifting could have been one of them too I suppose? I mean it's essentially a combination of illusion projection, conjuration and duplication casting (which as Loki took pains to explain is a totally different power.)
Sylvie stated that she doesn't know sorcery, obviously not having learned from Frigga yet before being abducted. Her power of enchantment was something inherent that she taught herself. Sylvie has no ability to shape-shift.

According to this show, Loki couldn't enchant (according to their conversation in the second episode when he asks her how she does it ) until the latest episode when he joined hands with Sylvie. In the first Avengers film, his ability to control minds was through the spear. I acknowledge the clip from Ragnarok, but it's inconsistent with what we're shown in this show. Sylvie's Enchanting is native to her, and in Journey into Mystery Loki discovers the same. Essentially Loki (all Lokis) is the "God of Enchanting" but never realized it until meeting Sylvie. In the same way, Thor is "God of Thunder." That said, I do like his title, "God of Mischief."

Basically anything Loki does that isn't Sylvie's enchanting is the sorcery he learned from Frigga. As babies they couldn't shapeshift; they changed from looking like "runt" Frost Giants when Odin found them and transmogrified them.
 
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Sylvie stated that she doesn't know sorcery, obviously not having learned from Frigga (yet.)
She also said she didn't remember her mother, and later admitted that she did. Lokis lie.
According to the show, Loki couldn't enchant until the latest episode when he joined hands with Sylvie. Sylvie has no ability to shape-shift. Essentially Loki is the "God of Enchanting" in the same way Thor is "God of Thunder." That said, I do like his title, "God of Mischief."
No, according to LOKI he couldn't enchant. Again: Lokis lie, especially to themselves.
In the very clip I linked to, we explicitly see him affect Valkyrie's mind. It's also implied that he enchanted Odin when he exiled him to Earth. Granted that Loki is a few more years down the timeline, but it's not like there's any room between 'Avengers' & 'Dark World' where he might have picked it up. More likely he has a natural talent for it that he never fully realised or appreciated until he made the attempt. Oh and there's also the post credits scene from Thor where he's inside Selvig's mind long before he'd have come in contact with the mind stone.

So basically, I call bullshit on both "Frigga never taught me" and "I don't know how to enchant".
 
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I think your biggest engineering challenge there is going to be getting the horns to attach and not "flop". Ideally you'd probably want at least the lower portion of the horns and the part of the band they attach to be all one solid piece, but that would probably require either 3D printing or old school (and even more expensive) injection-moulding. On the more affordable end of the spectrum, maybe use epoxy resin to reinforce the join and build a wire skeleton to support the horns under the foam?
I'm using EVA foam, it's so lightweight that it should be fine once sealed.
213410761_1174757236369263_4582177917989809130_n.jpg
I'm going to fill in the gaps and make sure that the horns get some reinforcement where they join the crown. But so far they seem stable and don't move around at all.
 
No, according to LOKI he couldn't enchant. Again: Lokis lie, especially to themselves.
According to that logic we should ignore everything he's ever said. The conversation was about each of their powers, exposition for the audience, and them starting to know each other. If they were both lying there was no point to the conversation. As well, at the end of episode 5 when they confront Alioth Sylvie takes Loki's hand:

Loki: What are you doing?
Sylvie: We're going to enchant it.
Loki: I can't.
Sylvie: Yes, you can. Because we're the same.

Now, of course he is lying according to you, even though they are about to beobliterated, because it's worth dyeing to get out just one more lie.

In the very clip I linked to, we explicitly see him affect Valkyrie's mind. It's also implied that he enchanted Odin when he exiled him to Earth.
And I acknowledged that link, but disregarded it. There are other contradictions between different movies. Different directors, different writers not knowing all the details of scripts not yet written.

More likely he has a natural talent for it that he never fully realised or appreciated until he made the attempt.
Nice. You're supporting your bullshit by using my actual conclusion?

Oh and there's also the post credits scene from Thor where he's inside Selvig's mind long before he'd have come in contact with the mind stone.
And we don't know exactly the date or time this occurred. The next movie one of the first things we see is Thanos' servant giving Loki the scepter and sending him to Earth to use the Chitari war to get the Tesseract.

So basically, I call bullshit on both "Frigga never taught me" and "I don't know how to enchant".
"Calling bullshit" is pretty strong language when all of your points are disputable. I'm calling difference of opinion.
 
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You know how the first episode had Loki going on about how illusion-casting and creating a fake version of himself are actually technically different powers? It's like that with "enchanting" and whatever other psychic-adjacent stuff we've seen him do.
 
It’s not lying if you didn’t know you could do it. There is even the setup where they watch old Loki conjure Asgard as a distraction and Loki tells Sylvie that they’re capable of more than they realize.
 
Loki didn't enchant Odin in Ragnarok in the same way. He essentially befuddled or erased his memory for a time. I'm not entirely clear Odin didn't just let him do it because it contributed to his grand scheme. But he couldn't possess him in the same way.
 
Loki didn't enchant Odin in Ragnarok in the same way. He essentially befuddled or erased his memory for a time. I'm not entirely clear Odin didn't just let him do it because it contributed to his grand scheme. But he couldn't possess him in the same way.
In Thor Ragnarok, about what Loki did to Odin, Odin did say, "Frigga would be proud..."; So obviously it was a spell or a bit of sorcery that Frigga taught Loki at some point.
 
I'm sort of in agreement with what someone said upthread about Sylvie's Nexus event being that she would be heroic - but it doesn't even need to go that far. She was told right off the bat that she was adopted, so that's the major source of conflict between her, Odin and Thor gone. She almost certainly wouldn't have sided with Thanos, and as "our" Loki proves, attempting to avoid that and "his" eventual fate in Thanos' grip (by "winning" as Kid Loki did or cheating as Classic Loki did) gets them marked as Variants.

She got marked for pruning because she was going to grow up, if not good, then not evil.
 
Loki didn't enchant Odin in Ragnarok in the same way. He essentially befuddled or erased his memory for a time. I'm not entirely clear Odin didn't just let him do it because it contributed to his grand scheme. But he couldn't possess him in the same way.
it's an interesting thing, and I've been thinking about it.

At the beginning of Ragnorok Thor shows up and sees Loki's play, which is obviously false, distorted, manipulative. Pick one, or all. And everything he says to Thor are blatant excuses and lies. Did Loki actually "enchant" Odin to abdicate the throne to him? I'd be surprised if anyone truly believed that watching the film.

Odin was dyeing and was in a place (Earth, Scandinavia) that he felt at home. Thor and Loki had a deep, sincere conversation with their father just before he died. I had no impression watching this that Odin was in any way enchanted or doing anything he hadn't intended.

Maybe some interpreted this scene as though Loki had manipulated or enchanted Odin Into choosing to die so that Loki could take over Asgard.. I just don't see it that way..
 
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I'm sort of in agreement with what someone said upthread about Sylvie's Nexus event being that she would be heroic - but it doesn't even need to go that far. She was told right off the bat that she was adopted, so that's the major source of conflict between her, Odin and Thor gone. She almost certainly wouldn't have sided with Thanos, and as "our" Loki proves, attempting to avoid that and "his" eventual fate in Thanos' grip (by "winning" as Kid Loki did or cheating as Classic Loki did) gets them marked as Variants.

She got marked for pruning because she was going to grow up, if not good, then not evil.
Could the Nexus event be that she was born female? To date she's the only Loki variant shown who was born as a female.
 
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