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Legalizing marijuana. I don't get it.

Alchohol does a lot more to impair your reaction time than weed does.

That's not really the issue. Nobody is suggesting otherwise.

With weed it's not so much that your reaction time is lowered, it's that you have trouble focusing on one thing long enough to be able to react to it.

In my experience (and don't take this to mean I always drive stoned, this was just a special case), as long as I used all my energy to focus on the road, I did just fine.
Yeah, but I bet nobody ran right out in front of you. Look, i'm not saying it's a horribly dangerous thing to do, or even that i've never driven after a little smoke myself, just that people would do well not to assume that it is no more dangerous than driving sober, that is obviously not true.
 
Personally, with driving, I don't think the problem is that it makes you a dangerous driver, it is that it cuts down your reaction times if something happens that is out of your control like if someone runs out in front of you.

Statistically it's probably not a big widespread problem I agree, as those sorts of accidents are rarer than driver error crashes, but it is still definitely more dangerous than being sober.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's worse than alcohol, just worse than driving completely sober.

I actually dislike that these conversations naturally turn to comparisons to alcohol, because I don't think that it's helpful. Of course alcohol is more dangerous and destructive overall. Hell, it's worse than a lot of drugs in several ways. Saying "well marijuana isn't as bad as alcohol" isn't exactly setting the bar very high.
 
Yeah quite, I mean driving on LSD is even worse, but I don't see anyone justifying drink driving with it :lol:
 
The laws against it don't stop people from using it. So your risk from stoned drivers is about the same either way.
 
Do you think you should have been charged with a crime? Do you think you should have had financial aid denied to you in college? That's what you're arguing in favor of.

Umm... no, I'm not in favor of keeping the status quo, nor am I completely legalizing pot. I'm trying to understand why it is illegal and why it should become legal.

Why it is illegal: I think it became illegal sometime in the 1910s or around there and was made illegal because it was felt it was a social bight and society and perhaps in part because certain industries were threatened that hemp could replace other textiles. Industries/politicians/lobbiests spread the "belief" that marijuana was a blight on society to convince them to want it criminalized. Pretty much how anything else is made illegal or banned, the extreme negatives being sold outweigh the truth.

In more modern times where its threat to textile industries was less-so it mostly got lumped into the "war on drugs" where it was sold as being a gateway drug to more serious narcotics. (In actuality alcohol is a much larger gateway drug.) Presently the reasons against it is more just the "loser stoner" trope being sold with the idea everyone would be like that should marijuana be legal. Just like how everyone smokes cigarettes and is an alcoholic.

Reason why it should be legal:

People in this country are supposed to be free to make their own choices and their own mistakes and it's not up to government to tell us what we can and cannot do with out own bodies. There's that plus the fact that marijuana is no greater threat to society or to people than alcohol or tobacco is and both of those products are legal.

It's interesting that champion, multiple gold-medal winning, swimmer Michael Phelps was lauded as a great American following the 2008 Summer Olympics, days after the ending of the games he was caught smoking MJ using a water bong and, well, he fell completely off the RADAR, losing endorsements. It's fascinating that the guy smokes a little weed and his entire career gets destroyed in the public's eye.

Sports figures, however, get on drunken benders, beat their spouses, or operate dog-fighting operations and pretty much after a bit of pennance in the media get back onto the top. If Phelps had been photographed smoking a cigarette or drinking a bottle of whiskey no one would have batted an eye, but get caught smoking some marijuana and suddenly you're on the same level as people who rape children and talk in the theater.

It's fucked up and twisted.

Who would you want your child to look up to more? Michael Phelps a multiple Gold Medal winning Olympic Champion who smoked a bit of weed or Kobe Bryant a man who plays decent basketball and was accused of rape?
 
Who would you want your child to look up to more? Michael Phelps a multiple Gold Medal winning Olympic Champion who smoked a bit of weed or Kobe Bryant a man who plays decent basketball and was accused of rape?

lakers.gif
 
I'm not sure why there is a lot of discussion about driving while stoned, even if marijuana where legal/decriminalized it would still be illegal to drive stoned.

The executive branch could just remove it from the controlled substance list and let states decide what they wanted to do with it
 
Eh, I'm not a basketball fan, so I dunno. It's still absurd the guy gets acused of rape and pretty much things turn around for him and he pretty much stays on top.

Phelps somkes some pot and his career is pretty much over instantly.
 
I don't think Phelps' career is exactly over, swimming isn't particularly high profile when not an Olympic year. He broke a bunch of world records since then though.

If he wins a few more at 2012, he'll be back in everybody's good books I'm sure.
 
If every state decriminalizes it that should send a message to the feds to get it fully legalized.

Honestly, stop wasting money on jailing possessors and start making money on taxation (though I'm not sure how it would work for people who grow their own, maybe it would be legal to grow and use your own but not to sell it?).
 
If every state decriminalizes it that should send a message to the feds to get it fully legalized.

Honestly, stop wasting money on jailing possessors and start making money on taxation (though I'm not sure how it would work for people who grow their own, maybe it would be legal to grow and use your own but not to sell it?).

Wouldn't the War on Drugs as far as pot goes just continue on only it would be trying to catch everyone growing selling without paying taxes?

Do you have to pay taxes if you grow some vegetables in your yard and sell them in a roadside stand or garage sale?
 
Yeah, I'm not saying it's worse than alcohol, just worse than driving completely sober.

I actually dislike that these conversations naturally turn to comparisons to alcohol, because I don't think that it's helpful. Of course alcohol is more dangerous and destructive overall. Hell, it's worse than a lot of drugs in several ways. Saying "well marijuana isn't as bad as alcohol" isn't exactly setting the bar very high.

Well, then apply limitations and penalties to it's use similar to those applied to alcohol. Drunk driving is a crime. Stoned driving could be a crime also...without making weed itself illegal. In fact, you don't even need to call it 'drunk driving' or 'stoned driving'. You could simply call it 'chemically impaired driving', and apply the exact same penalties.

The comparison to alcohol is only being made because those against legalizing weed yammer on and on about how drugs are so terrible...while they are drinking a gin & tonic. Or four. It's hypocritical....and often lacking in any real knowledge of the true effects of weed.

It is ridiculous to label weed 'bad' and alcohol 'okay' based on anything but the most arbitrary of reasons. But that is what the laws currently DO. However, anyone who drinks but who is against legalizing weed, IMO, has no leg to stand on. Because impairment issues, addiction issues, etc, are much more severe with alcohol than they are with weed. So there is no logical basis for keeping one legal while criminalizing the other. It makes no rational sense. And laws should make sense.

Making weed legal and applying the resources used now on that portion of the war on drugs to other, more serious drug enforcement (including drunk driving) is a much better use of our time and money. Throwing money at enforcement of laws that do not make sense in the context of other laws is just silly.
 
I'd assume that there would be similar penalties if it were legalized. I'm not sure if you're trying to disagree with me, or merely using my post as a way to put forth your own opinion. For the record, I'm not against the legalization of marijuana.
 
. . . It is ridiculous to label weed 'bad' and alcohol 'okay' based on anything but the most arbitrary of reasons. But that is what the laws currently DO.
As Bill Maher pointed out, the current drug laws are nothing more than an attempt to legislate taste.
 
. . . It is ridiculous to label weed 'bad' and alcohol 'okay' based on anything but the most arbitrary of reasons. But that is what the laws currently DO.
As Bill Maher pointed out, the current drug laws are nothing more than an attempt to legislate taste.

I think it has more to do with our nation's history of a dominance of Christian values. Although there's nothing directly obvious about "alcohol's ok, drugs aren't" in Christian theology, it does track historically that alcohol use has always been considered more socially acceptable in religious ideology than recreational drug use. Honestly it probably has to do with the fact that alcohol traces its roots back to very early western civ and has been available and popular in Judeo-Christian societies for ages. Things like pot, hash, peyote, etc; the naturally grown narcotics, HAVE been around just as long or longer, but historically were always much more embraced by Pagan cultures than Christian ones. I'm not like a western civ expert but I'm betting that definitely has something to do with the evolution of the perception of recreational drug use in the western world as taboo.

Well, then apply limitations and penalties to it's use similar to those applied to alcohol. Drunk driving is a crime. Stoned driving could be a crime also...without making weed itself illegal. In fact, you don't even need to call it 'drunk driving' or 'stoned driving'. You could simply call it 'chemically impaired driving', and apply the exact same penalties.

It already is, at least in Missouri. They just package it under "driving under the influence".

I'm just going to make a little side comment, not that it should be taken to imply that I'm against legalization but I've seen at least a couple people claim that it's less of an impairment to drive high than to drive drunk and... maybe I'm just a little odd but I couldn't disagree more. I've probably smoked pot like 6 times in my entire life, and out of those six times I've probably tried to drive, twice. I'll just admit in order to demonstrate my point, I've probably driven under the influence... idk, 10 times. I know it's horrible, it's stupid, it's putting people at risk, yada yada, if anyone's had someone they care about hurt by a DD, I completely understand if you think I'm an asshole but that has nothing to do with my point. Any time I have tried to drive while high (twice), I have given up and had someone else drive me after about a block. The last time I did it, I think I got lost in my hometown of 17 years after a similar distance. I can't understand how anyone could possibly do it. On the other hand, and maybe this is from practice? I don't know, I'm not trying to make it sound cool, it's simply fortunate for my sake and everyone else's, but unfortunately I've managed to drive home from parties, friends' houses, etc, completely, and brutally, obliterated. Maybe I'm just really careful, don't drive like an idiot, don't try to get home fast, etc; idk. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being you black our, I've probably driven at a 7 a couple times and a 9 once. But that was kind of unavoidable bc I got thrown out of a party at 4 am out in the boonies... And I would probably say that every experience I have had attempting to drive high is 4 times harder than the WORST experience I have ever had trying to drive home intoxicated. Just my 2 cents.
 
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Yeah, I'm not saying it's worse than alcohol, just worse than driving completely sober.

I actually dislike that these conversations naturally turn to comparisons to alcohol, because I don't think that it's helpful. Of course alcohol is more dangerous and destructive overall. Hell, it's worse than a lot of drugs in several ways. Saying "well marijuana isn't as bad as alcohol" isn't exactly setting the bar very high.
Well, then apply limitations and penalties to it's use similar to those applied to alcohol. Drunk driving is a crime. Stoned driving could be a crime also...without making weed itself illegal. In fact, you don't even need to call it 'drunk driving' or 'stoned driving'. You could simply call it 'chemically impaired driving', and apply the exact same penalties.

DUI.
 
If every state decriminalizes it that should send a message to the feds to get it fully legalized.

Honestly, stop wasting money on jailing possessors and start making money on taxation (though I'm not sure how it would work for people who grow their own, maybe it would be legal to grow and use your own but not to sell it?).

Wouldn't the War on Drugs as far as pot goes just continue on only it would be trying to catch everyone growing selling without paying taxes?

Do you have to pay taxes if you grow some vegetables in your yard and sell them in a roadside stand or garage sale?

Not exactly. You could put Americans to work by hiring inspectors who don't and won't smoke to check people's plants. It wouldn't cost more than minimum wage.
 
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