Each to their own.
Leaving The Captain's Chair: After The Fame
- Thread starter M.A.C.O.
- Start date
Ha! Love it!
Were all/any the US military men who became president that much different?
Life can change a man. We only saw Archer for 3 seasons.
More than a few argue that Washington was more politicians than general, and that Greene outshined him.
Or, the planets are in different star systems. Archer (no number), and Archer's two through four being class M planets in their respective systems goldilocks zones.
In the Star Trek (11) movie comic tie-in, Picard was the Federation Ambassador to Vulcan. It would be easy to see Picard going into diplomacy after his Starfleet career ended.
Maybe she did something significant after returning to Earth?
Between the airing of Endgame and the release of Nemesis was less than nineteen months.
Being a lowest ranked Admiral okay, but the highest?
He'd also learnt for himself, thanks to Q, that he had a career in diplomacy after Starfleet before retiring completely and settling down on the Picard vineyard. My theory was based on that, he'd seen one path his life had gone and decided to go another way. I think he'd enjoy digging through ruins more than being an ambassador, also I'd like to think that he and Vash teamed up again for some hi-jinks.
Janeway's rank pips in Nemesis is that of a Vice Admiral. Higher than she really should've been, but not one of the highest ranking in the admiralty.
What did Kirk do to earn a promotion to Admiral? Janeway's achievement in getting Voyager home 63 years sooner than originally projected (with some help from her future self and alternate timeline-selves) was more challenging than Kirk's. He could always call on Starfleet or put in somewhere for repairs.
Janeway is a lot like Kirk. That little speech about how the 23rd century Enterprise crew would have been tossed out of Starfleet "now" is just so insanely hypocritical.
Kirk only destroyed his ship once. Janeway destroyed Voyager more than once (counting the alternate timelines).
Considering that Kirk did have encounters with various women on numerous planets, he could have left other children he never knew about. Drusilla, for example, could have become pregnant with his baby. Or Deela could have. And what about Ann Mulhall, while she and Kirk were hosting Thalassa and Sargon's consciences - I doubt the aliens would have passed up the opportunity for sex while inhabiting physical bodies. David could have had plenty of half-siblings that Kirk didn't know about.
Janeway did leave offspring - three highly-evolved lizards, who in some fanfic stories come looking for their parents - and they are highly upset at just having been abandoned like unwanted animals.
The Kirk family still goes on because his nephew survived "OPERATION -- ANNIHILATE!", and could very well have had children of his own down the road.
Picard, on the other hand, stated in GENERATIONS that when his brother had Rene, he took comfort in that the family would still go on since he opted not to have kids. He even said, after the fire that killed them, there would be no more Picards.
Regarding what Kirk did to earn being Admiral, his 5 year mission was more legendary than any others, enough that his ship is the only one in Starfleet that future named ships get the same registry with a letter added. No other ship has that honor.
For Janeway, there are two possibilities for her promotion. First, she made more first contacts than any other officer in Statfleet history, so she could be an Admiral in charge of that area. Also, she did get her ship home in 1/10 of the time it should have taken.
Another possibility... they promoted her to keep her away from starship command because of so many questionable decisions over the years. She might very well have faced a court martial for some of them, but given how she would be celebrated so widely for getting her crew home, Starfleet had to save face but still needed to keep in check what they may consider a loose cannon. The best solution in that scenario would be a promotion.
Picard, on the other hand, stated in GENERATIONS that when his brother had Rene, he took comfort in that the family would still go on since he opted not to have kids. He even said, after the fire that killed them, there would be no more Picards.
Regarding what Kirk did to earn being Admiral, his 5 year mission was more legendary than any others, enough that his ship is the only one in Starfleet that future named ships get the same registry with a letter added. No other ship has that honor.
For Janeway, there are two possibilities for her promotion. First, she made more first contacts than any other officer in Statfleet history, so she could be an Admiral in charge of that area. Also, she did get her ship home in 1/10 of the time it should have taken.
Another possibility... they promoted her to keep her away from starship command because of so many questionable decisions over the years. She might very well have faced a court martial for some of them, but given how she would be celebrated so widely for getting her crew home, Starfleet had to save face but still needed to keep in check what they may consider a loose cannon. The best solution in that scenario would be a promotion.
Thank you for the reminder of Peter Kirk. I had entirely forgotten about him (he's got a much greater presence in the fan films, albeit aged 10 years or so).
Granted, this is canon. However, I did say I was speculating that both Kirk and Picard might have fathered children they knew nothing about.
This has been speculated as a probable reason for Kirk's promotion as well - he played fast and loose with the Prime Directive on a number of occasions, and perhaps there were some conservative elements among the upper-tier admiralty that suggested promoting Kirk would be a face-saving way to rein him in.
After all, it does seem odd that Kirk would have been offered an admiralty after only 5 years as a captain. Look at how long Picard was a captain before he was offered an admiralty.
It seems to me that Kirk and Janeway received their promotions more because of Starfleet politics (not that they weren't extremely competent at their jobs, of course). Picard, on the other hand, received his offer not only due to politics but also on the basis of the sheer number of years he'd put in as a captain.
Of course we don't know if Janeway took her rank on the condition that she get to command a ship again some day. Obviously I'm not accounting for what the novels say; I haven't read most of them, and don't really care much about Janeway.
I don't think it was ever said when Picard got that offer in "Coming Of Age" that it was his first offer. After all, he really relished the adventure and exploration of being a captain, so I can certainly see him turning down offers to the Admiralty before being offered the Enterprise-D.
It is interesting to note that the main traits and skills of each captain tend to be the scenarios they faced, on the whole.
Kirk... soldier. Great strategist, excellent command presence.
Picard... diplomat. So many situations were resolved due to his skill at diplomacy.
Sisko... engineer. He had the daunting task of helping to rebuild a society from an occupation, and stopping a great threat from deconstructing his own.
Janeway... scientist. The level of technobabble used in this series alone shows this.
Archer...explorer. So many things happened just because of his curiousity. But that can be said about any such thing. But this also helped form the bonds that would make the Federation.
It is interesting to note that the main traits and skills of each captain tend to be the scenarios they faced, on the whole.
Kirk... soldier. Great strategist, excellent command presence.
Picard... diplomat. So many situations were resolved due to his skill at diplomacy.
Sisko... engineer. He had the daunting task of helping to rebuild a society from an occupation, and stopping a great threat from deconstructing his own.
Janeway... scientist. The level of technobabble used in this series alone shows this.
Archer...explorer. So many things happened just because of his curiousity. But that can be said about any such thing. But this also helped form the bonds that would make the Federation.
She was no longer a series lead.
I used to believe that. Then I learned that absolute buffoons who make Archer look like the greatest leader in human history can become presidents.
Touché!
I'm no great admirer of Janeway but remember that she is returning to a fleet still recovering from a devastating war.There would be a dearth of experienced officers especially at admiral rank.Either through casualties,retirements,reassignments or officers who weren't up to the job(those type are everywhere),there would be vacancies.
Also apart from Picard Janeway would be the fleets foremost expert on the Borg and it would be nice to see Starfleet being ahead of that particular curve for a change.
Also apart from Picard Janeway would be the fleets foremost expert on the Borg and it would be nice to see Starfleet being ahead of that particular curve for a change.
That is a valid point about Janeway returning post-Dominion War. But she returned two years after the war was over. I would think that Starfleet would have recovered any vacant Admiral spots, at least, in that time.
But how many of them would have had her level of expertise about the Borg?
I can believe these other reasons you list, but I would think that being an admiral would be safer than being a captain, relatively speaking. I would suppose admirals don't usually engage in the immediate front line operations, except perhaps at huge coordinated efforts, and spend most of their time in some headquarters instead? Then again, I don't know how it is in contemporary navies....
The last time an Admiral died at sea (*) would AFAIK have been Robison of USN in 1972, in what was essentially a "shuttlecraft accident"; the last to die in a sea battle might have been Callaghan and Scott, also of USN, at Guadalcanal in late 1942. Both sorts of death still appear perfectly possible in today's naval warfare, with flag officers aboard those big floating targets they call carriers, and might be plausible in Trek, too.
Timo Saloniemi
(*) And the world learned about it. Who knows how many North Korean flag officers were lost at sea last month?
Timo Saloniemi
(*) And the world learned about it. Who knows how many North Korean flag officers were lost at sea last month?
I've always loved Kirk's end. His death in GEN had a big impact on me and I thought Shatner played it perfectly. His line "It was...fun" perfectly encapsulates that character and his life. It chokes me up every time.
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