News Kurtzman’s contract extended

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Tuskin38, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Rick Berman did 25 seasons of Star Trek from 1987 to 2005, an average of 1.39 a year. Alex Kurtzman has done 13 seasons from 2017 to 2022, an average of 2.6 a year. At this rate, Kurtzman should reach Berman-equivalent around 2027.
     
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  2. Mogh

    Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh, I jest of course. Berman and outstayed his welcome and then some. I comfort myself by thinking that, whatever the odd misstep, his worst sin was being a bit dull by the end. He didn't do anything to fundamentally rip it up.

    (You raise an excellent point about Michelle. I'm claiming Paradise Lost when it comes to show direction...!)

    So very, very long!

    And hey, fingers crossed, there's time and hope for us to agree on Strange New Worlds...
     
  3. Skipper

    Skipper Commodore Commodore

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    Few months it isn't really "necrothreading". I just wanted to answer your post:)
     
  4. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Around half as many episodes per season though!
     
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  5. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The seasons will be equal but not equitable. Star Trek seasons during Berman's era were usually 26 episodes. Star Trek seasons during Kurtzman's era are usually 13 for DSC and 10 for everything else.

    In other words: 1 season of Berman Trek is like 2.5 seasons of Kurtzman Trek.

    624 episodes of Star Trek have Rick Berman's name in the credits. Let's lop off the first two seasons of TNG because he wasn't really completely in charge yet. The beginning of the third season is when he was officially promoted to Executive Producer. So, taking off 48 episodes, that gives us 576.

    It's going to take a long, long, looooong time before Alex Kurtzman puts his official rubber stamp on 576 episodes. If ever. And a lot of those will be half-hour episodes. Even less if they bring back Short Treks. He's not catching up to Rick before 2030.
     
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  6. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, that was the joke.
     
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  7. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Too early in the morning for me, I hadn't had coffee, and I just responded to the first thing I saw. :o
     
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  8. 1001001

    1001001 Ready for the Laughing Gas Moderator

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    It was only idle for three months. The "no bumping" rule is one year.
     
  9. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    What I actually said is that I am tired of people holding black actors to different standards than white actors.

    You should look into something called "implicit bias."

    Martin-Green is an excellent actor who has taken her character in just three seasons on an emotional journey matched only by Brooks's Sisko on DS9 and Patrick Stewart's Picard on PIC.

    Wiseman is a graduate of Juilliard School. She's demonstrated a broad range throughout DIS as her character has grown and matured.

    Using the exact same labels used to demean and discriminate against women for generations is not actually a good way to defend yourself against claims that you are holding black actors to a double standard.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
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  10. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Also, I cannot emphasize enough how patently false are the claim that Martin-Green overacts. Her performance throughout S1 is marvelously restrained -- SMG first presents us with a Michael who is cold, stern, and understated, having been raised by Vulcans. In the pre-Binary Stars scenes, we see a Michael who has grown superficially friendlier but is still stoic, becoming emotional only when confronted with the revival of her childhood trauma. When Michael comes aboard Discovery, she remains distant and aloof. "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad," possibly the best episode in DIS S1, is all about how she used stoicism to hide from her real feelings. The entire Mirror Universe arc is a pitch-perfect depiction of a woman drawing upon her cultural Vulcan stoicism to hide her horror at the violence she is forced to endure and mete out in order to survive, hiding her real feelings with only subtle acting choices used to communicate Michael's real state of mind. S2 is all about her gradually opening up, learning to trust her crewmates and heal from the profound traumas of her early life -- which, yes, as in real people, means that there are some moments when the dam bursts and the pain comes flooding through, but it's hardly present most of the time. S3 is all about Michael synthesizing her different sides -- her Vulcan cultural heritage, her newfound ability to trust and bond with her crew, her new understanding of herself without all the baggage she was carrying in S1 and S2.

    SMG's performances have consistently been nuanced, demonstrating the journey of someone moving from Vulcan stoicism to Human mental health while confronting profound traumas along the way. She's restrained when necessary and emotional when necessary, and her acting shows a maturity in determining what each scene requires of her as an actor. And yes, it is very, very noticeable that the claims against SMG went from "she's too wooden!" to "she overacts!" without acknowledgement that the two criticisms are contradictory, or that both are exaggerated reactions to the emotional journey SMG has taken Michael Burnham on over the course of the series.
     
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  11. Mogh

    Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, you said it in direct response to my post and a point I made about an (incidentally black) actress. I don't think you're as implicit as you imagine.

    I'd argue an overacted one that doesn't fit with the norms of character behaviour in that universe as established over the last 55 years.

    So's Kelsey Grammer but trust me, Hank sucked. Relevance?

    I don't think anyone on this thread has referenced race or gender, just the performance of the actors in question - anyone except you, that is. I wonder what implicit biases you have?

    Your other post is well reasoned although I'd disagree with you. Try sticking to that - you don't need to throw accusations to make your point, and it rather detracts from what you're trying to say.

    I'd say her performance was much more compelling in the first season (Tilly, by contrast remains from the outset an ill-conceived character) and I don't think her performance was ever wooden, but it really has been floodgates since season 2 (again, in a mere 13 episodes a season, you can put together a length reel solely of her crying). It's as if they got bored of the idea that she was raised by Vulcans and just needed her to emote more for the audience.

    That said, clearly nobody's trying to rein it in as Nick Meyer infamously did with Shatner. As Garth says - maybe the question is "what's Michelle Paradise thinking"?
     
  12. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    The problem with this claim is that those "norms" are no longer applicable. Modern television uses acting styles that are different even from those common in the late 1990s -- Patrick Stewart has talked about how he felt like he had to re-learn television acting while doing PIC compared to how he used to do it on TNG. Complaining that modern acting styles differ from those in prior Trek productions is frankly a bit like being upset that the cinematography is different, or that the visual effects are different. Television has evolved, and therefore the artistic conventions of the shows have evolved.

    The faculty of Juilliard are expert judges of acting ability and far more credible in that capacity than literally anyone on this BBS.

    The bias of being tired of people holding black actors to double standards and calling women "hysterical."

    Calling people out on their double standards and misogynistic language does not detract from anything.

    No, it really hasn't.

    Seriously -- which scenes in particular strike you as over-acted? In what manner are they over-acted? What other acting choices would have been more appropriate?

    Hold on here. Is it that she is over-acting, or is it that her character cries too often?

    'Cos here's the thing: crying is often a writing choice. So if your complaint is that Michael cries too often, that's a writing issue, not an acting issue. SMG's job is to embody the scripts given to her.

    As it stands -- I actually agree that Michael cried a little too often in S2! But that doesn't mean SMG is over-acting. Heck, it doesn't even mean the writing of any individual scene was bad -- it means that they went to that well a little too often for it to retain its effectiveness.

    No, it's that the character has grown and changed as a result of her experiences, and has learned that repressing her emotions only caused her traumas to fester and grow rather than allow her to heal from them.

    Or maybe the question is, what are you thinking? Because I can't think of a single scene where SMG's performance struck me as emotionally unrealistic.
     
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  13. BillJ

    BillJ Former Democrat Premium Member

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    Martin-Green is a good actor doing the best they can with some, IMO, pretty poor material.
     
  14. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    She's clearly a good actor and is a very good ambassador for the show. The "overacting" charge has been levelled at Shatner and Brooks in the past, so it's hardly out of step with Trek history.

    I'm not sure what this has to do with Alex Kurtzman's contract though.
     
  15. 1001001

    1001001 Ready for the Laughing Gas Moderator

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Same here, especially based on character history.
     
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  17. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

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    Huh? William Shatner was criticized and lampooned for years for his overacting on Star Trek. It's been parodied to death by comedians and there is even a website devoted to his overacting.

    Guys like Pacino, Travolta and Nicholas Cage have been criticized many times for their overacting. You're way off base if you think white actors don't get the same criticism.









    PS: I don't think there is anything wrong with the actress who plays Burnham. I just don't find her character interesting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
  18. 1001001

    1001001 Ready for the Laughing Gas Moderator

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    Racial bias/stereotyping in Hollywood sounds like a great topic for TV and Media.

    Anyway, any further thoughts on the actual topic?

    :shrug:
     
  19. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

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    Haven't been a big fan of what's been released so far, but clearly the franchise is reaching a newer audience so I'm glad for that. Strange New Worlds seems to be more my speed so I'm looking forward to it's release. Disney is ramping up it's Marvel and Star Wars shows so paramount needs someone who can bring this franchise a larger audience and expand the universe.
     
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  20. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Seeing the outcry at Discovery's delay to 2022 and move to Paramount+ outside the US and Canada made one thing very clear:

    A lot of people were looking forward to it.
     
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