Klingon Warriors suck?

[Triskelion]

You can fight one individual (stronger or weaker, bigger or smaller, more experienced or less experienced) and win.

You can fight the same individual and lose.

Not in principle - in reality I have experienced directly over and over again.

The difference? It will cost you to find out.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, that was stupid. It was cool for them to have duels and such with bladed weapons but bringing them into actual combat was silly. Maybe those Klingons were really determined to die honourably in combat?

Yeah, well, even though I prefer swords and staves over firearms, I still can recognize the practicality of one.

Maybe the Klingons don't die but slowly regenerate, and don't learn from their mistakes

 

[Timo]

Maybe those Klingons were really determined to die honourably in combat?

Maybe they were sent to die honorably in combat, as part of Gowron's campaign of kickstarting his war machine? A great way to purge the military: order all undesirables into the first wave, poorly armed, with the options of dying heroically, dying unheroically in front of the execution squad, or perhaps surviving the fight and reaping glory that restores some of their status in Gowron's hierarchy.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SpaceLama]

Heh, I like your thinking - maybe they were recently dishonoured and given a chance to reclaim their honor.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Possibly. They may have been lower-tier Duras supporters back in the day; too insignificant to execute outright, but not insignificant enough to ignore their crimes against Gowron. Useful and convenient fodder, during a desperate war, looking to bring their houses out of perpetual shame for their decision to back the wrong horse. That fits in quite nicely, actually.

 

[Timo]

Much would depend on which Gowron found more important: restoration of Klingon fighting trim after long dormancy, combined with purging of disloyal elements - or an actual victory in taking DS9, another move guaranteed to boost his reputation as a great military leader. I could well see him choosing the former over the latter. After all, he had little intent of taking (or even taking on) DS9 before the fake Martok goaded him into it.

On the other hand, organizing of these punitive suicide squads would probably be something he'd need to plan in advance, and if he had no intent of boarding and conquering DS9... I mean, his declared goal of ousting Founders from Cardassia would be best served by destroying DS9, and he could have achieved that more easily than boarding and possessing. The initial steps would be the same: suppress defenses, collapse shields. But if step three were "blast to pieces" rather than "take over Ops", the fight would have been over much sooner!

Apart from punitive squads, would there be any rhyme or reason to the use of boarding parties with swords drawn? Mind you, most of the Klingons did not have their swords drawn: the ones on the Promenade had them slung over the left shoulder (if carried at all) while the right one was holding a disruptor. And of the first wave to beam into Ops, only one opted for a drawn sword. So the question becomes, why did the Klingons decide to draw their swords? Can't be they were afraid of hurting the equipment, as they saw Starfleet and the Bajorans shoot around with abandon.

Parties thus armed might still be punitive; if Gowron really wanted the station taken with efficiency, he'd beam in flash-bangs first, or theragen gas, or disruptor drones. Giving the condemned a disruptor would not be a problem, if you only gave it to him at the transporter room where you did have bombs, theragen or drones in the ready to execute any mutineers or cowards.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

It works well and fits the overall idea of a still fractured Empire that still has factions and classes within it. If they succeed then they show loyalty to the Empire. If the don't, it provides fuel to the fire for the war machine-"Don't let them die in vain" type propaganda.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Plus, old political foes (and potential future ones) are effectively done away with, while using their sacrifices to shame others that may still be sitting on the fence - "These former traitors redeemed their honor in fighting and dying for the Empire - what are YOU waiting for?"

Quite an elegant, self-cleaning system, from a certain POV.

 

[Longinus]

Apart from punitive squads, would there be any rhyme or reason to the use of boarding parties with swords drawn? Mind you, most of the Klingons did not have their swords drawn: the ones on the Promenade had them slung over the left shoulder (if carried at all) while the right one was holding a disruptor. And of the first wave to beam into Ops, only one opted for a drawn sword. So the question becomes, why did the Klingons decide to draw their swords? Can't be they were afraid of hurting the equipment, as they saw Starfleet and the Bajorans shoot around with abandon.

Actually, I think that could be the reason. Klingon weapons may lack the ability to fine tune the beam intensity the way the phasers do. If we want an explanation beyond 'Klingons are stupid' or 'writers are stupid' I think that's the best one. (I don't think Klingons are stupid, less sure about the writers.)

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Do we know Klingon combat training is practical?

Most of our exposure to Klingons is to Klingon nobility. They train their kids on batt'leths. Maybe noble families protect their kids from dangerous assignments and expect the only combat they will see is batt'leth duels with their underlings. Maybe the army is generally composed of Klingons from poor families who are possibly badly trained and malnourished, and they don't get any more combat training than a Starfleet cadet.

 

[DarKush]

Thanks USS Einstein. If it was Torres, she is half-Klingon. And you're right, Kira is a hardened fighter, so to me I don't think either example proves that Klingon warriors are inherently weaker than other humanoids.

 

[fireproof78]

Do we know Klingon combat training is practical?

Most of our exposure to Klingons is to Klingon nobility. They train their kids on batt'leths. Maybe noble families protect their kids from dangerous assignments and expect the only combat they will see is batt'leth duels with their underlings. Maybe the army is generally composed of Klingons from poor families who are possibly badly trained and malnourished, and they don't get any more combat training than a Starfleet cadet.

Possibly, which fits the more feudal nature of the Empire as we see it. Many of the warriors could be considered knights in comparison. The rest of the Klingon population could be more peasant like, and conscripted for military service.

The Klingon military might rely more on their brute strength to suffice against more inferior species, with melee weapons as the Klingons might be strong enough to do some serious damage, which might explain the emphasis.