Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[Crazy Eddie]

The Cushing movies are most definitely seperate.

We HOPE. The continuity falls apart otherwise.

Again there have been plenty of lines to that explain stuff in Dr. who.

"Wibbly wabbly timey wimey... stuff."

Never said who Continuity was perfect

No, what you said was:
"Dr. Who actually does a better job of respecting established Continuity better than Trek ever did."

Which is, frankly, hilarious. In fact it's a show that very GLEEFULLY inverts its own continuity from time to time because "We're time travelers, why the fuck not!" and they know full well nobody is ever going to call them on it. They've wiped whole chapters of past production completely out of canon only to halfway reinsert them at a later time. It doesn't help that some parts of Doctor Who canon are inaccessible even to the writers just because the actual episodes no longer exist and were never saved anywhere except in fragments. This is why we have (at least) two completely contradictory origins for the Daleks and an amazingly convoluted retcon for the cybermen (alternate Earth/alternate reality).

Because it's all just scifi adventure fun and the Doctor LITERALLY laughs in the face of continuity.

but it most certainly does respect what came before better than current Trek does with its visual Continuity.

"Visual continuity..."

That's not a real thing.

And AGAIN I and many others are not saying it has to be stuck in THE TOS look.

Sorry, but that's EXACTLY what you're saying when you complain about "visual continuity." You are not, for example, wishing for a return of the big red TWOK uniforms or something similar, yes? You're not pining for the return of the TNG-era jogging suits or the Voyager jumpers. I'm going to hazard a guess that you didn't even like the Kelvinverse retro-refresh of the TOS era uniform tunics.

So that kinda narrows it down quite a bit, eh?

They could have done a contemporary look based on TOS but chose not to and I think it's gonna hurt them.

Right, because even after 50 years, the only thing TV audiences really want from Star Trek is for it to be more like "The Cage."

 

[Amaris]

Timeline issues aside, some modicum of effort to make Discovery appear as if truly takes place a decade before the legendary Five Year Mission of TOS and TAS should have been put into place. Instead, we have a show that far exceeds any of the original series' successors in its conveyance of a futuristic setting and aesthetic. Obviously, yes, CBS desires as large of a fanbase as possible (despite the streaming exclusivity, which will only prove counter-intuitive to this) and creating a 'Phase II' TOS aesthetic would not accomplish this. Nonetheless, there are numerous ways to accommodate Discovery to that era: the bridge should at least feature at least a few homages to the TOS NCC-1701, and the uniforms should, without a doubt, resemble what Pike's crew wore in 'The Cage'/'The Menagerie'.

The redesigned Klingons are simply atrocious (from any consideration) and, once again, demonstrate that no effort was made by the producers to connect Discovery to the timeframe in which it is set. It's so sad to see that the Klingons have finally made their full transformation into purely monstrous-looking beings. The nuance actors like John Colicos, William Campbell and Michael Ansara brought to their Klingons will be utterly impossible to be conveyed through these monstrosities, even if they are portrayed by the very greatest actors of our era...

Star Trek shouldn't be about flashy visual effects, brooding, dull characters, or excessively monstrous aliens. This was a franchise underpinned by humanism, story-telling, idealism, adventure, and subtlety...once.

Did you say subtlety?

SUBTLETY?!

No. Star Trek has never been subtle. It has been about as subtle as a jackhammer in a room packed with dynamite. I love Star Trek, and have since I was just a wee child, but the show has never been subtle. Seriously guys, quit fetishizing the past.

 

[Mr Awe]

Amusingly, this is all supposed to be the same room on the same ship.

Actually, no. It was stated, in The Doctor's Wife I believe, that all previous control rooms were stored away. The variations aren't intended to be the same physical room. But, this really isn't relevant.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Except that Discovery takes place ten yewrs before TOS, not after, and the Enterprise is routinely implied to be on the cutting edge of technology

ENTERPRISE is implied to be cutting edge?

Nope. Never. Not even once. The first time any mention is made even CLOSE to that is TMP, when Scotty talks about the crew having to get adjusted to "all that new equipment."

and every other Constition-Class Starfleet vessel shown in the series is virtually identical to the NCC-1701).

Discovery isn't Constitution class.

Then again, it's kind of funny that these are supposed to be the exact same room just a couple of weeks apart:

I'm thinking Star Trek is more like Doctor Who than I thought.

 

[Mr Awe]

I don't believe that this takes place in the prime timeline. In fact, I think it's a complete reboot and takes place in its own timeline.

Well, you're wrong.

Next!

 

[The Rock]

Well, you're wrong.

Next!

I just can't see how the way it looks in the show turns into what it looked like in TOS, especially with it being 10 years before that.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I know we were just told that Discovery is a true prequel to TOS, but I think by now we've all seen the trailer and realized that that can't really be true. In fact, when Bryan Fuller initially said it was set in the Prime Timeline he also said that it could be in either one. But a direct comparison shows which timeline it most closely matches:

And while not a direct comparison, look at the design on this helmet compared to the Klingon architecture in STID:

I don't see anything in the trailer that resembles TOS, it's all clearly based on the aesthetic of the new movies (just look at all the lens flares.) So until we get a real indication to the contrary, I'm going to say that Discovery is set in the Kelvin Timeline.

I don't think we have any reason to think that even if the aesthetic is similar as there is nothing yet that flat out says Kelvin Timeline to me. Plus, in order for them to use it, I suspect Bad Robot and Paramount would need to be involved in the production and we know that's not the case.

I think as much as some of us older fans want to see a true prequel to TOS, I think we have to accept that any prequel made in 2017 isn't going to look like The Cage did in 1964. It's not made for us, or rather It's not made just for us. It's for creating new fans, and whether some of us (like me) hated the dumbed down aspect of JJ Trek, the non-fans liked the look and feel of the films. The ticket sales show it. So I fully understand why the look of the show is such that it looks like it borrows somewhat from JJ Trek's style and other modern filmmaking tropes. It has to get new fans in through the door. To be honest if it can do that and use that as a way to get in people who otherwise wouldn't think about Trek's humanist stories then that's fine with me. I was always willing to overlook the reboot quality of JJ Trek of they told good, intelligent stories, and while Abrams let me down on that for the most part, I think the TV format will hopefully fix that problem for me.

 

[Amaris]

I just can't see how the way it looks in the show turns into what it looked like in TOS, especially with it being 10 years before that.

I want to know why a starship set in the 23rd century uses technology that went obsolete in the 1980s. Data tapes, tri-corner CRT monitors, and clock readouts using gear based systems instead of digital technology that emerged in the 1990s.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I just can't see how the way it looks in the show turns into what it looked like in TOS, especially with it being 10 years before that.

It doesn't. Discovery never made an appearance on TOS.

In-universe explanation: Enterprise was a very old ship and part of a fleet that was doing retro-60s business casual for its uniform selections.

Real explanation: It was the 1960s. Nothing is EVER going to look like that again.

 

[The Rock]

It's as if Starfleet said, "You know, we don't like this futuristic look anymore, so we're gonna go retro and make everything look simple. No more holograms or touch screen controls. We're gonna regress." And yes, I know the REAL LIFE reasons for why this is, but it doesn't make much sense.

At least Enterprise connected TOS aesthetically and they even went so far as to go with an authentic TOS look in the "In A Mirror, Darkly" two-parter showing that Enterprise leads right into the 60's TOS show.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

It's for creating new fans, and whether some of us (like me) hated the dumbed down aspect of JJ Trek, the non-fans liked the look and feel of the films.

So did A LOT of the "old fans."

Also, unless you're in your mid to late 60s (are you?) you're not really an old fan either. To be perfectly honest, I think I'm sensing a lot of faux nostalgia from people who picked up Star Trek in the TNG era and then backtracked to TOS thinking "Oh wow, this old version is so much better! How come they don't make it like this anymore?" Meanwhile, everyone I know in their mid-to-late 60s saw the Kelvinverse films and LOVED them.

 

[Amaris]

It's as if Starfleet said, "You know, we don't like this futuristic look anymore, so we're gonna go retro and make everything look simple. No more holograms or touch screen controls. We're gonna regress." And yes, I know the REAL LIFE reasons for why this is, but it doesn't make much sense.

At least Enterprise connected TOS aesthetically and they even went so far as to go with an authentic TOS look in the "In A Mirror, Darkly" two-parter showing that Enterprise leads right into the 60's TOS show.

What do you want in a two minute trailer? I mean, honestly? I think a lot of the fans who are complaining are asking *way* too much from a TV series trailer. The assumptions that are being made essentially boil down to "this didn't impress me, so I don't like it, it's not Star Trek." If you can honestly do that, then don't watch it. It will never hold to your insanely high expectations. For that matter, neither would have TNG, DS9, VOY, or ENT.

 

[DigificWriter]

As I pointed out earlier, the USS Kelvin originated in the Prime Timeline, and Discovery has a very Kelvin-esque aesthetic to it, so practical design means squat at this point.

DSC is set in the Prime Timeline pre-TOS because that's where it was narratively conceived to take place; whether or not it looks like the 1960s-Era TOS stuff is irrelevant.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

So did A LOT of the "old fans."

Also, unless you're in your mid to late 60s (are you?) you're not really an old fan either. To be perfectly honest, I think I'm sensing a lot of faux nostalgia from people who picked up Star Trek in the TNG era and then backtracked to TOS thinking "Oh wow, this old version is so much better! How come they don't make it like this anymore?" Meanwhile, everyone I know in their mid-to-late 60s saw the Kelvinverse films and LOVED them.

I'm in my forties and have been watching since TOS re runs in the 70s. I am from that time when there was only one crew.

As for your nitpick, notice that I said "some" not "all" older fans, so you need not get in a twist over my remark - which is what you seem to me doing as your response really has very little to what I am saying, and if you are a fan of the look of JJ Trek then you logically should be agreeing with what I am saying, not looking for things to create conflict over.

 

[Amaris]

As I pointed out earlier, the USS Kelvin originated in the Prime Timeline, and Discovery has a very Kelvin-esque aesthetic to it, so practical design means squat at this point.

DSC is set in the Prime Timeline pre-TOS because that's where it was narratively conceived to take place; whether or not it looks like the 1960s-Era TOS stuff is irrelevant.

Right now, the rebuttal to that seems to be "even though it has never been shown in any canon, this isn't what I expected to see as pre-TOS, therefore it's wrong."

 

[Crazy Eddie]

It's as if Starfleet said

Starfleet didn't "say" anything. The show was made 50 years ago. None of what we SAW would have actually looked that way. In fact, depending on how you interpret TMP, you could say the entire "refit" of the Enterprise is actually a retcon.

 

[The Rock]

What do you want in a two minute trailer? I mean, honestly? I think a lot of the fans who are complaining are asking *way* too much from a TV series trailer. The assumptions that are being made essentially boil down to "this didn't impress me, so I don't like it, it's not Star Trek." If you can honestly do that, then don't watch it. It will never hold to your insanely high expectations. For that matter, neither would have TNG, DS9, VOY, or ENT.

Calm down. I never said I wasn't gonna watch it. I just said I don't believe it's set in the prime timeline, despite what the producers have said. If that makes me an idiot then so be it.

 

[Amaris]

Calm down. I never said I wasn't gonna watch it. I just said I don't believe it's set in the prime timeline, despite what the producers have said. If that makes me an idiot then so be it.

I never said you were an idiot, but I do believe the expectations you have for the show are astronomically high, and will only lead to disappointment, because no Trek series could possibly meet them the way they are framed here.

 

[Noname Given]

I don't think we have any reason to think that even if the aesthetic is similar as there is nothing yet that flat out says Kelvin Timeline to me. Plus, in order for them to use it, I suspect Bad Robot and Paramount would need to be involved in the production and we know that's not the case.

I think as much as some of us older fans want to see a true prequel to TOS, I think we have to accept that any prequel made in 2017 isn't going to look like The Cage did in 1964. It's not made for us, or rather It's not made just for us. It's for creating new fans, and whether some of us (like me) hated the dumbed down aspect of JJ Trek, the non-fans liked the look and feel of the films. The ticket sales show it. So I fully understand why the look of the show is such that it looks like it borrows somewhat from JJ Trek's style and other modern filmmaking tropes. It has to get new fans in through the door. To be honest if it can do that and use that as a way to get in people who otherwise wouldn't think about Trek's humanist stories then that's fine with me. I was always willing to overlook the reboot quality of JJ Trek of they told good, intelligent stories, and while Abrams let me down on that for the most part, I think the TV format will hopefully fix that problem for me.

Please speak for yourself as this 'old fan' (watching since 1969 at age 6); LOVED the trailer and the aesthetic. YMMV of course.

And like they did for the U.S.S. Defiant on ENT (because that ship HAD been the focus of an episode and it was supposed to be the actual ship from the TOS 'Tholian Web' episode); IF they ever show the actual 1701 interior Bridge, I'd bet you they WOULD make it look like it did in TOS - "The Cage" - but we'll see if they ever do that if/when it happens.

 

[The Rock]

I never said you were an idiot, but I do believe the expectations you have for the show are astronomically high, and will only lead to disappointment, because no Trek series could possibly meet them the way they are framed here.

I never said that it not being in the prime timeline was a bad thing. I don't mind a reboot at all. You're acting as if I'm mad that I don't think it's set in the prime timeline.