Kate Mulgrew and Jeri Ryan?

[KiraDax]

AuntKate said:
What I dislike is the immediate labeling of Kate as the "bad guy" in this situation. I ask you to read her comments on Jeri (Totally Kate has a nice collection of her articles and con talks) with an open mind and come back here and show me where she "constantly flaunts" acrimony, expresses scathing dislike, or publicly derides her.

Fine. If I've misinterpreted Kate's remarks, I apologize for that as well.

Answer me this, though. If Kate is neutral and polite regarding her feelings about Jeri, where do her fans get their completely unsettling levels of hatred for the character of Seven and near same level of dislike for her actress from?

Does Kate approve of that?

I'm not trying to be snide here, I'm honestly curious.

 

[AuntKate]

The allusion was made that Jeri was too much of a lady to discuss the acrimony that apparently existed between her and Kate, and that, conversely, Kate is not a lady for doing so. I was simply suggesting that there might be other issues besides her being a "lady" that keep Jeri from talking about it as openly as Kate seems to--such as some ambivalence about Kes's character having to leave with Seven's arrival and a desire to keep private her affair with the producer (and it's impact on the rest of the cast). While I can't imagine anyone having the gaul to ask her how her involvement with Braga influenced her role on the show (I know that he insisted on writing and/or approving all of her dialogue, for example), I wouldn't put it past some fans to do just that.

And let's be fair. Kate liked Jennifer, had worked with her for three years, and saw her as a young actress with talent who was hired, like the rest of them, for the long-term only to be let go. When a friend is mistreated, we speak up--or at least we should. Perhaps Kate could see how damaging this would be to Jennifer's career and to her self-esteem and was vocal in her criticism of it. If her reaction did, indeed, complicate her working relationship with Jeri, I never saw it on screen, did you? And I continue to say that Kate has been respectful of Jeri herself throughout.

You're lucky if you've never experienced negative results from a co-worker's affair with the boss. I'd say you're the exception, not the rule.

 

[DrTaylor]

Shatmandu said:

KiraDax said:
If folks want Jeri to be generous enough to do future appearances, I suggest they stay clear of a topic that discomforts her (and would discomfort anyone in her place). Common sense and decency.

Common sense and decency? Trek fans?

At the next big Con, put a bucket of ashes on a dealer table. Add a sign reading "Gene Roddenberry's Remains."

Watch the common sense and decency fly.

I doubt Jerri Ryan thinks much about Kate Mulgrew anymore. Why would she? Do any of you still think about people from a job you had several years ago?

Joe, moisturized

This isn't exactly a job, is it? I mean, Star Trek sticks with you more than the average job. Just look at Walter Koenig's resume.

 

[exodus]

AuntKate said:
The allusion was made that Jeri was too much of a lady to discuss the acrimony that apparently existed between her and Kate, and that, conversely, Kate is not a lady for doing so. I was simply suggesting that there might be other issues besides her being a "lady" that keep Jeri from talking about it as openly as Kate seems to--such as some ambivalence about Kes's character having to leave with Seven's arrival and a desire to keep private her affair with the producer (and it's impact on the rest of the cast). While I can't imagine anyone having the gaul to ask her how her involvement with Braga influenced her role on the show (I know that he insisted on writing and/or approving all of her dialogue, for example), I wouldn't put it past some fans to do just that.

And let's be fair. Kate liked Jennifer, had worked with her for three years, and saw her as a young actress with talent who was hired, like the rest of them, for the long-term only to be let go. When a friend is mistreated, we speak up--or at least we should. Perhaps Kate could see how damaging this would be to Jennifer's career and to her self-esteem and was vocal in her criticism of it. If her reaction did, indeed, complicate her working relationship with Jeri, I never saw it on screen, did you? And I continue to say that Kate has been respectful of Jeri herself throughout.

You're lucky if you've never experienced negative results from a co-worker's affair with the boss. I'd say you're the exception, not the rule.

I think Kate is respectful of Jeri the actress, not the person.

It's never easy to deal with someone you like being fired, however Kate's anger was misplaced I think. While Jeri accepted the role, she had absolutely nothing to do with who got fired from the show nor was she responsable for using her image as Seven to promote the show. If Kate had issue and is bold enough to tell the fans, then be just as bold and bring your issues to your boss like you're supposed too.


Lucky, me? My name & lucky have never gone hand in hand. Still, being an exception to the rule is something I'm fairly aware of.

 

[exodus]

DrTaylor said:

Shatmandu said:

KiraDax said:
If folks want Jeri to be generous enough to do future appearances, I suggest they stay clear of a topic that discomforts her (and would discomfort anyone in her place). Common sense and decency.

Common sense and decency? Trek fans?

At the next big Con, put a bucket of ashes on a dealer table. Add a sign reading "Gene Roddenberry's Remains."

Watch the common sense and decency fly.

I doubt Jerri Ryan thinks much about Kate Mulgrew anymore. Why would she? Do any of you still think about people from a job you had several years ago?

Joe, moisturized

This isn't exactly a job, is it? I mean, Star Trek sticks with you more than the average job. Just look at Walter Koenig's resume.

Aren't resumes just a list of past jobs and abilities?

 

[AuntKate]

KiraDax said:
Answer me this, though. If Kate is neutral and polite regarding her feelings about Jeri, where do her fans get their completely unsettling levels of hatred for the character of Seven and near same level of dislike for her actress from?

Does Kate approve of that?

I'm not trying to be snide here, I'm honestly curious.

I think there was some conflict between the actresses because Seven's character threatened to replace Janeway as the "star" of the show. In fact, many fans complained that the show stopped being an ensemble series and turned into the 7/EMH show--with a heavy dollop of Janeway. I think some of the fans get caught up in that competition. Add to that the loss of Kes and the totally out-of-the-blue C/7 pairing in "Endgame," and the rivalry came to include both the the actresses and their characters.

I doubt that either Kate or Jeri would approve of the attitude some of their fans have toward the other actress. When there are two "stars" of a show, the rest of the cast is sure to feel the tension that Wang described. I think there is even some comments from Picardo about the rivalry, but that is not unusual on any program, to tell the truth. I remember hearing that there was animosity between Lucille Ball and Vivian Vance on "I Love Lucy," for example! With their egos, actors naturally read how many lines they have, how much air time, etc. It goes with the territory.

My guess is that many fans don't go back to the real words spoken by either actress and just take other people's opinion about the rancor that existed. It irritates me the same way I'm irritated when someone says, in an offhand way, that Seven "always saves the day," or Janeway became "totally psychotic" toward the end of the series. They are seldom able to show me "where" they get those ideas, because they haven't actually seen the show! Or, in the case, read what Kate has actually said.

IMHO, it's wrong to label Kate is "unladylike" for discussing the ambivalence she feels toward the Seven character and the loss of Kes. She's always been honest about her feelings, and she's always been respectful of both Jennifer and Jeri as actresses. And it's equally wrong to label Jeri a lady simply because she hasn't discussed it, for whatever reason. She just hasn't been as forthcoming, period.

The animosity existed, apparently, and yet both of them were professional enough to get the work done and to create some of the best scenes in the series. Kudos to both of them for that.

 

[KitchenWitch]

DrTaylor said:

Shatmandu said:
I doubt Jerri Ryan thinks much about Kate Mulgrew anymore. Why would she? Do any of you still think about people from a job you had several years ago?

Joe, moisturized

This isn't exactly a job, is it? I mean, Star Trek sticks with you more than the average job. Just look at Walter Koenig's resume.

In the 6 years since Voyager ended, Jeri has: starred for 3 years on Boston Public, starred for one year (now shooting the second season) on Shark, done a number of guest spots on television series, voiced a video game, and taken over a year off of acting to open her restaurant, which she still actually works at.

I would call Voyager "history" to her.

 

[KitchenWitch]

AuntKate said:
IMHO, it's wrong to label Kate is "unladylike" for discussing the ambivalence she feels toward the Seven character and the loss of Kes. She's always been honest about her feelings, and she's always been respectful of both Jennifer and Jeri as actresses. And it's equally wrong to label Jeri a lady simply because she hasn't discussed it, for whatever reason. She just hasn't been as forthcoming, period.

And that is the way Jeri handles such things. She said following the media blitz regarding her divorce that all you can do is keep your head down, do your job, and wait for it to blow over. She doesn't air dirty laundry in public.

And, frankly, that's what *I* mean by being a lady about it. Your mileage apparently varies.

Regarding Picardo's comments: If only Kate could learn to do the same...

SciFi Pulse: How was your relationship with Jeri Ryan? Is there any truth about the animosity between Jeri and Kate Mulgrew?

Robert Picardo: My relationship with Jeri Ryan was and is great. My relationship with Kate Mulgrew was and is great. I am very fond of both of them and had a terrific time working with both of them and beyond that I’d rather not comment.

 

[AuntKate]

Everyone is different, thank goodness, or what a boring world it would be.

 

[KitchenWitch]

^ Yep, great we don't have a lot of people like Jeri and Picardo, else tabloid editors would be out of a job, and Voyager fans would have nothing to talk about.

 

[kimc]

AuntKate said:
When read in context, Kate is complimentary of Jeri's acting ability and her work on Voyager. She doesn't constantly flaunt acrimony toward Jeri, and she has never expressed a scathing dislike nor has she publicly derided her. She has said that they aren't friends.

Gee, why take things in context when speculation is so much more fun?

I believe Mulgrew felt she owed it to the fans, knowing they were upset, to be honest about what went on. Jeri didn't feel the need to be as forthcoming but there is nothing wrong with her "don't tell" policy. What all this has to do with either of them being a "lady" is beyond me. Ryan may have had an affair with Braga but Mulgrew also had an affair with a married man associated with the show in the early years so all that proves is people in Hollywood don't mind sh**ing where they eat.

 

[exodus]

I made the comment about being a "lady" to be cute, I didn't think it would be taken to seriously.

 

[kimc]

exodus said:
I made the comment about being a "lady" to be cute, I didn't think it would be taken to seriously.

Well you should know by now I'm always serious.

 

[exodus]

kimc said:

exodus said:
I made the comment about being a "lady" to be cute, I didn't think it would be taken to seriously.

Well you should know by now I'm always serious.

Go drink your coffee .

 

[TiberiusK]

KiraDax said:

AuntKate said:

Kate doesn't have manners and ethics, but Jeri does?

I don't know the woman, so I would not go so far as to say she doesn't. By the same token, though, I really don't see how it's fair for people (I'm trying NOT to limit this to Kate fans, however tempted) to perpetually imply that the acrimony about Jeri she constantly flaunts is somehow Jeri's fault.

The politics of entertainment work aside, what precisely has Ms. Ryan ever done personally to Ms. Mulgrew to deserve such scathing dislike and public deriding, from Mulgrew herself or her fans?

I apologize for making a blanket statement, but in *this* particular situation, I think Jeri has expressed dignity and restraint far beyond Kate.

Everything that Mulgrew has said hasn't been personal about Jeri Ryan. She has criticized the producers decision to replace Kes, to bring in Tits and Ass in a catsuit, etc., but she has always made it clear that he has much respect for the actress and that she was greatly impressed by the writing for her character. It has never been personal as far as I've seen.

 

[TimelessTrek]

Alright, let's get this straight, since this hasn't been brought up:

RYAN was NOT brought on board to replace Lien. Lien simply had NOWHERE else to go development wise. According to producers and writers by the 4th season of the show, Lien should have started looking really old given her short lifespan. At the same time, they were veering away from Kazon/Ocampa storylines and needed to focus ona completely new subject (the Borg).

Ryan was simply a combination of incorporating a new plotline into the series, as well as trying to fill the void Lien would leave AND PERHAPS draw more viewers to the show, through tasteless T&A shots.

As far as Mulgrew being mad about young actresses in general upstaging older women in Hollywood, I can see her point. When Voyager first same on, Kate had a lot of publicity because she was the first female captain/star of a Trek series and not some wimpy/sex symbol vixen that you find in nearly every show. I can see why she thought very highly of character and status as a rolemodel in general back then.

So when the decision was made to axe Lien (a young actress who never stole the spotlight from Kate even though she wore little catsuit-like outfits too [hottest little butt in Trek!]) and bring in Ryan, Kate's significance in Trek instantly went down the crapper. Voyager went from being a show with a strong female lead to a show with a woman captain and her big boobed sidekick.

Now I don't know why there's still resentment after all these years but its probably for the same reason Garret Wang brings up his situation on Voyager...because for these actors, that show was either the pinnacle and/or launching pad of their careers. What happened then REALLY was significant to their esteem and professional potential afterwards.

 

[Orac Zen]

The show's been off the air for what - six years now? And still this tired old subject keeps rearing its ugly head. I mean no offence to the OP but it's old, it's been done to death, and at this point it does not matter in the slightest. To be going on about this stuff six years later is just ridiculous.

All I'll add is my usual comment when this subject appears: There's no law or anything that states that work colleagues have to like each other, never mind be friends. The women concerned, regardless of their (alleged) opinions of each other, are terrific actresses who gave life to two terrific characters. That's what's relevant here. Anything else is beside the point - certainly at this distance.

 

[Akiraprise]

The sad thing is these kinds of threads always get the most activity. Positive threads usually only get a few replies. These threads go on and on because people love gossip, dirt, fights, etc. It's never going to change. But trekbbs is a discussion board and if people want to discuss 6 year old gossip have at it. As long as people stay within the rules and don't take this stuff personally all should be well. Other than that I'm outta here. These threads don't interest me, and if I wasn't a mod I wouldn't read them.

 

[exodus]

I just really wanna know why so many posters here take issue with the female body?

Anybody would walk a down the street and see a women with a figure like Jeri Ryan's and compliment her on how well she stays in shape but if you put that same body on a Trek show it suddenly becomes tasteless and you hear comments like "it only appeals to the lowest common denominator".

Why are so many of us are ashamed or offended by the human body that we think this way?

 

[KiraDax]

I get that she's defensive on Lien's behalf. Fine. So are many of the other cast, but they haven't sunk to her level. Her carrying on wasn't going to change anything, so perhaps she should have measured her words and tone and not embarrassed the poor girl any longer by drawing out the issue.

TiberiusK said:

Everything that Mulgrew has said hasn't been personal about Jeri Ryan. She has criticized the producers decision to replace Kes, to bring in Tits and Ass in a catsuit, etc., but she has always made it clear that he has much respect for the actress and that she was greatly impressed by the writing for her character.

You see, though, that's just it. There's statement and then there's implication, and one is just as bad as the other. The fact that she's willing to label the character of Seven such insulting names and speak of her in such a derogatory manner doesn't give me much room for thinking her views of Seven's actress are any higher.

I'm just really but off by that air of 'oh, that's all right' some fans have. I don't care whether Mulgrew's holy place in the spotlight was unsurped or not, that doesn't give her the right to go in public and slander another person just to stoke her ego and fan trash talk. Ryan can keep her mouth shut, Mulgrew needs to do the same. She's only undermining her own credibility as a professional and a person by feeding the fire.

She should just be grateful she had a job, and had darn good work on that job those last four seasons. TPTB could have replaced her.