Just Watched “What We Left Behind”. Why is HD DS9 footage in 16:9? Is CBS interested in HD DS9?

[tomswift2002]

Paramount only has themselves to blame as they've fleeced the fanbase so much over the years with these home releases. When TOS first came to DVD they didn't even start with seasons. They sold two episode DVD discs that weren't even given a proper remaster. It took them awhile to release all the episodes, but once that was done they moved to the season sets with TNG, DS9 and Voyager before going back to TOS to release season sets. Then when Blu ray came around they decided to do a proper remaster of TOS and released the season sets again. That's not counting the carious collectors or fan collective sets that have been released over the years. If you go to Amazon and type in Star Trek DVD you'll see numerous releases for the various series and you have to read carefully because you never know if that TOS set is the remastered one or not. At some point, the fanbase decided enough was enough.

It wasn’t when Blu-Ray came around. The decision was made in 2005 in order to commemorate TOS’s 40th anniversary and re-entry into the US syndication market. And the original broadcasts of TOS-R were in 480i/576i SD sourced from the new 1080p masters. Also, originally, CBS withdrew Enterprise from syndication for TOS-R, so CBS was able to charge the syndication rates in both SD and HD for TOS-R that they had been charging for Enterprise (as the used the same contract that they had with Enterprise).

The first Blu-Ray’s weren’t released until 2009. Season 1 had been released on the HD-DVD/480p DVD format in 2008, and 2&3 on 480p DVD in 2008 and 2009. Also, since 2006, CBS has phased out the original 1960’s prints of TOS, with the exception of the Blu-Rays (and iTunes), so the only available version is the Remastered edition. TNG-R on the other hand, went straight to Blu-Ray—-a format that still has not caught on as well as DVD. And CBS never released TNG-R on DVD, so all DVD releases have been the original 480i masters from the 80’s and 90’s. Also, we do not know how well the Blu-Rays of TNG-R sold after Season 4 as CBS never released that information. All that is from guesswork and third-party contractors who are not involved in the internal discussions at CBS and only know what they are told, which could be anything from partial-truths to outright false statements. And right now, CBS is making far more money on TNG-R from syndication fees than they ever could from DVD, Blu-Ray and streaming (really on Paramount plus, CBS is paying themselves).

However, it is curious, from a business perspective, as to why they have not Remastered DS9 and Voyager, as in Syndication CBS is essentially giving those series away for free, because the market for old SD-only shows is niche (and DS9 and Voyager make up almost 50% of all Trek produced to date—-352 hours out of 870 TV hours not counting theatrics movies/half of 870 is 435). Also, CBS keeps giving streaming services files that are 640x240, since the files are recompressed versions of the DVD files (that, were compressed versions of the D2 NTSC Composite videotapes—-Star Trek was rendered in NTSC Composite from 1987-2001 with the switch from analog composite to digital composite occurring in 1990) that have had one of their fields removed, and the remaining field doubled, whereas TV stations that air either series are up scaling them from composite 480i SD tape, so they are using all the available information, and they are processing the colour on modern equipment, versus 2002-2003 equipment for the DVD’s/streaming files. Really CBS would do better to re-edit DS9 & Voyager into HD, than just keeping them in 480i composite video. Right now it’s like if Disney only allowed 16mm Black-and-white prints of their 1950’s “Davy Crockett” series to be used for syndication and home video/streaming, while letting the 35mm colour prints to not be used. Disney would not get the prices they wanted. Same with CBS, they are losing money on DS9 and Voyager right now because they are locked into SD. Sure both shows left the air in the black, however as time passes by, stations are going to start not wanting to air SD-only shows because the machines are old and are wearing out and parts are getting harder to find. With TOS-R and TNG-R, they are now future-proofed. DS9 and Voyager are in antiquated condition.

 

[fireproof78]

So they should invest money in to something that is already losing money?

 

[ichab]

However, it is curious, from a business perspective, as to why they have not Remastered DS9 and Voyager, as in Syndication CBS is essentially giving those series away for free, because the market for old SD-only shows is niche (and DS9 and Voyager make up almost 50% of all Trek produced to date—-352 hours out of 870 TV hours not counting theatrics movies/half of 870 is 435). Also, CBS keeps giving streaming services files that are 640x240, since the files are recompressed versions of the DVD files (that, were compressed versions of the D2 NTSC Composite videotapes—-Star Trek was rendered in NTSC Composite from 1987-2001 with the switch from analog composite to digital composite occurring in 1990) that have had one of their fields removed, and the remaining field doubled, whereas TV stations that air either series are up scaling them from composite 480i SD tape, so they are using all the available information, and they are processing the colour on modern equipment, versus 2002-2003 equipment for the DVD’s/streaming files. Really CBS would do better to re-edit DS9 & Voyager into HD, than just keeping them in 480i composite video. Right now it’s like if Disney only allowed 16mm Black-and-white prints of their 1950’s “Davy Crockett” series to be used for syndication and home video/streaming, while letting the 35mm colour prints to not be used. Disney would not get the prices they wanted. Same with CBS, they are losing money on DS9 and Voyager right now because they are locked into SD. Sure both shows left the air in the black, however as time passes by, stations are going to start not wanting to air SD-only shows because the machines are old and are wearing out and parts are getting harder to find. With TOS-R and TNG-R, they are now future-proofed. DS9 and Voyager are in antiquated condition.

As has been discussed earlier, the costs for such a project are very high. It's nothing like Disney holding back a color version of David Crockett as that is already to go in the their vault. In order to bring DS9 and Voyager to HD they would practically have to redo every effect shot as those are only available in standard definition. It would be even more difficult project than TNG because at least that show was still using models and miniatures. DS9 and Voyager used mostly CGI,. This video goes in depth on how difficult that would be.

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[tomswift2002]

As has been discussed earlier, the costs for such a project are very high. It's nothing like Disney holding back a color version of David Crockett as that is already to go in the their vault. In order to bring DS9 and Voyager to HD they would practically have to redo every effect shot as those are only available in standard definition. It would be even more difficult project than TNG because at least that show was still using models and miniatures. DS9 and Voyager used mostly CGI,. This video goes in depth on how difficult that would be.

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The files for DS9 and Voyager still exist and were over engineered in the 90’s in order to be available for use in theatrical films. They just need to be re-rendered. And we saw that on the What We Left Behind documentary—-the CGI from “Sacrifice of Angels” was the original 90’s CGI, just re-rendered at 1080p and cropped for 16x9.

Another option is doing a SeaQuest where, if the original D1 Digital Component SFX tapes still exist (or use the scenes from the D2 Composite Master tapes), CBS would just need to rescan in HD the live-action-only scenes, and upconvert the 480i tapes to 1080p. It’s not the best option, but it would be like SeaQuest. And it would move DS9 and Voyager away from being freebies that CBS is just giving away. And like Davy Crockett in color and HD, Disney is able to charge top dollar.

As I said, CBS is basically giving away DS9 and Voyager right now to TV stations and streaming systems since advertisers do not want to pay much to advertise during SD content. So from a business perspective, it makes more sense for CBS to upgrade DS9 & Voyager somehow, otherwise stations and streaming services (especially if they are upconverting 4K) will refuse to air the series. Most stations/live-streaming services airing the series are still using 3/4 U-Matic or Betacam SP or other SD tapes. Right now those analog formats are kind of helping to offer higher quality up scales due to the analog signal not dealing with digital pixels, however the equipment for those formats was discontinued in the late-90’s, early-2000’s, so while stations still have them, they are having to salvage parts from other VTR’s that are between 25 and 30 years old. How long they’ll be able to do that before there are no more available second hand parts?

Even if CBS offered upscaled 1080i files from the D2 Composite Masters (in which case, CBS would need to pull out all those master tapes and retransfer them, since the DVD files are not going to cut it for broadcast due to their average bitrate of 6.0 Mbps, whereas DVCPRO 50 has a constant bitrate of 50 Mbps and Digital Betacam has a constant bitrate of 90 Mbps—-both are SD formats that have been out of production for nearly 20 years) very few stations would accept them because the quality would not be there (stations are okay with airing the 6 episodes from the 1950’s/60’s “Twilight Zone” like that because there are only 6, not 352 episodes) for broadcast.

Really, I can see DS9 and Voyager disappearing from broadcast and live-streaming services over the next few years because the equipment to play will wear out and the stations will change policies regarding as to what they play based on the source of that video. That doesn’t mean they’ll stop playing 4:3 content, however if the content isn’t from a HD videotape source or film, then a lot of stations will pass, since it’ll be like in the 70’s asking a station to broadcast a TV show or movie from 8mm film—-they would’ve refused even if it was all that was available, unless they were an extremely small station—-because the quality was not there.

 

[fireproof78]

So from a business perspective, it makes more sense for CBS to upgrade DS9 & Voyager somehow, otherwise stations and streaming services (especially if they are upconverting 4K)

Not really. Investing money in something that's already losing money is a poor business strategy.

They'll just shift to other content to sell.

So unless DS9 and VOY are showing as making bank (doubtful) then it doesn't make sense.

 

[kkt]

I'd be willing to bet that CBS is a whole lot better at figuring the market for upgraded DS9 and Voyager than anyone here.

 

[fireproof78]

I'd be willing to bet that CBS is a whole lot better at figuring the market for upgraded DS9 and Voyager than anyone here.

I would imagine so. But the premise asserted was that DS9 and VOY already cost money to CBS by airing them 3rd party. So they should spend more money on something losing money. Because this upgrade will not come cheap.

 

[ichab]

The files for DS9 and Voyager still exist and were over engineered in the 90’s in order to be available for use in theatrical films.

Going to need to see a source for that one. Voyager was not anywhere near movie quality as attempts to upscale that show have been lackluster at best.

They just need to be re-rendered. And we saw that on the What We Left Behind documentary—-the CGI from “Sacrifice of Angels” was the original 90’s CGI, just re-rendered at 1080p and cropped for 16x9.

It was FAR more complicated than that.

EXCLUSIVE: New Looks at High-Def DEEP SPACE NINE Footage From the WHAT WE LEFT BEHIND Documentary

We’ve known for more than two years that the long-gestating documentary has been aiming to include as much high-def material as possible, including running a second round of fundraising specifically to facilitate the complicated process of rescanning remastering the original film elements from the series to a 1080p presentation — which we covered extensively when CBS Digital, back for this project, took on the Next Generation remastering several years ago.

While the What We Left Behind documentary is being treated as a standalone effort — meaning that the material converted to HD is not intended to be part of a full-series DS9 remastering — the results of the production team’s efforts, assisted by original director of photography Jonathan West, are no less than outstanding, as you’ll see in some new, exclusive footage we bring you today courtesy of Shout! Studios.

As you may have seen when we broke down the documentary trailer last month, the remastered Deep Space Nine episodic footage has been reframed for a 16:9 widescreen presentation as to be more visually compatible with the lengthy interview segments which fill the majority of the film.

In this first clip shared with TrekCore, you can see clearly illustrated how this scene between Quark (Armin Shimerman) and Kira (Nana Visitor) in the final moments of “Emissary” have been reframed for the new presentation: by opening up to the picture information available in the full film negative, the editors have been able to adjust the framing for the documentary with minimal top-and-bottom cropping.

There is still some picture information lost around the upper and lower edges of the frame, a limitation of the early years of production on Deep Space Nine. As the series progressed, and DP Jonathan West came on board for Season 3, the filming team protected for a potential future widescreen presentation.

As documentary producer Kai de Mello-Folsom told us last August:

We have been consulting with director of photography Jonathan West,” de Mello-Folsom told us, “who confirms that, at least from Season 3 on, camera operators were framing ‘action-safe’ for widescreen — in order to future-proof [the episodes] for eventual, possible, widescreen release.”

Framing is one thing, but the biggest impact this remastering project has had on the series footage, as expected, is the remarkable improvement in image quality. We first got a taste of what Deep Space Nine could look like in HD back when “Birthright” arrived as part of the TNG Season 6 Blu-ray set, showing how the physical station model and Promenade sets could look given a proper rescan and regrading.

The earliest episodes of Deep Space Nine contain some of the most difficult-to-watch footage of the franchise, from an image fidelity standpoint — series producer Ira Behr has publicly called the current DVD-quality releases “[not] something to be proud of” — and “Emissary” remains one of the worst offenders.

Details are lost in murky dark scenes aboard the trashed station, the gorgeous matte paintings of Bajor are blurry messes, and familiar settings like the Enterprise bridge and transporter room are full of haze, a notable step down from the TNG Blu-rays we’ve now all grown accustomed to watching.

In this second exclusive moment from What We Left Behind, the infamous first encounter between Commander Benjamin Sisko (Avery Brooks) and Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart) — set inside the Enterprise conference lounge — bursts to life after a pass through CBS Digital’s remarkable restoration process.

From the bright reds of the officers’ Starfleet uniforms, to the true-white tea set on the table, to the shot of Bajor out the window, this feels like a shot we’re seeing for the very first time. (Also note the new framing in this moment appears to have no cropping at all, just an expansion to the sides of the picture.)

More on the actual process

What We Left Behind’ Update – Remastering Clips Of ‘Star Trek: Deep Space Nine’ Nearing Completion

emastering episode footage
The documentary has over 20 minutes of footage from DS9 spanning all seven seasons, which involves scanning 400 reels of 35mm film. The original film reels have to be located, brought out of storage, scanned, and then color corrected and generally cleaned up of any blemishes. It’s not a trivial task. Today’s official DS9 Doc update notes:

We’re nearly through the heavy research-and-scanning stage of our remaster, and with just a few (hundred) more film rolls ahead of us, we’re hard at work replacing the 20+ minutes of new HD sequences — spanning ALL SEVEN seasons of the original run of Deep Space Nine!

Keep in mind this was a crowd funded project that cost millions of dollars all for barely 20 minutes of footage. Seven seasons of the show with 176 episodes will be VERY expensive.

As I said before, I would love to have this show on HD, but the tech isn't there yet to make it economically feasible.

 

[tomswift2002]

Going to need to see a source for that one. Voyager was not anywhere near movie quality as attempts to upscale that show have been lackluster at best.

Voyager can be upscaled to HD, just like DS9. The original digital FX files still exist and have the resolution (the “Ships of The Line” calendars and books have used a shot of Utopia Planitia from “Relativity” in 16x9 and whenever they need Voyager, even for novel covers, they still use the 90’s files, and those books use a higher resolution than even 4K). The digital files just need to be re-rendered into 1080p or 4k.

It was FAR more complicated than that.

I’d disagree with that. It’s just rescanning the film and re-rendering the CGI and re-editing. And of course, if the SFX still exist on D1 Component Video tape (or grab them from the D2 Composite masters), that could cut costs since instead of re-rendering, CBS could pull a SeaQuest move with the CGI.

Keep in mind this was a crowd funded project that cost millions of dollars all for barely 20 minutes of footage. Seven seasons of the show with 176 episodes will be VERY expensive.

As I said before, I would love to have this show on HD, but the tech isn't there yet to make it economically feasible.

I’d disagree. I just recently saw the Blu-Ray’s of SeaQuest, and even though the SFX were in 480i, and they looked really good. So even if CBS went that route with DS9 and Voyager, they would be fine. Enterprise even had the CGI of Seasons 1&2 rendered in 480i and upconverted to 1080p (looks better on DVD than broadcast or Blu-Ray) and even now that’s good enough for HD broadcasters in 2023.

As for DS9 and Voyager losing money, both series left the air in the black in 1999 and 2001. And for all these years Paramount/CBS has been getting profit on top of profit for it. However, because they are locked into SD (and NTSC Composite video at that) advertisers are unwilling to pay much for SD programs, no matter how well known they are. Plus in 2022 the European Broadcasting Union was voting on policies to remove 480i/576i/1080i standards from its acceptable broadcast resolutions, and were pushing to use only 720p/1080p due to modern TV’s and computer monitors and streaming being progressive-scan--only and for any received content, whether new or archival to be aired from 720p or 1080p formats. (The stations could still broadcast 1080i, but they would need to source their broadcasts from a 720p or 1080p source, such as a 720p HDCAM SR tape, as I understand it, they would not even allow 480p to be used for archival material). So besides the technology to playback DS9 and Voyager wearing out and becoming obsolete, governments are also moving to remove the interlace-formats from use. With governments it’s the video quality they are looking at, and DS9 and Voyager, even in SD 480i look like worn out SLP VHS.

 

[fireproof78]

So, the governments should dictate what companies should do?

I just don't see the demand for this HD remake.

 

[ichab]

Voyager can be upscaled to HD, just like DS9. The original digital FX files still exist and have the resolution (the “Ships of The Line” calendars and books have used a shot of Utopia Planitia from “Relativity” in 16x9 and whenever they need Voyager, even for novel covers, they still use the 90’s files, and those books use a higher resolution than even 4K). The digital files just need to be re-rendered into 1080p or 4k.

Sure it can be upscaled, but it will look like crap.

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And I'm still waiting for your source stating that DS9 and Voyager were over engineered in order to be used in films.

I’d disagree with that. It’s just rescanning the film and re-rendering the CGI and re-editing. And of course, if the SFX still exist on D1 Component Video tape (or grab them from the D2 Composite masters), that could cut costs since instead of re-rendering, CBS could pull a SeaQuest move with the CGI.

I just posted links showing you it was a more difficult process than that. Those are facts I posted, not opinions.

I’d disagree. I just recently saw the Blu-Ray’s of SeaQuest, and even though the SFX were in 480i, and they looked really good.

Then you have extremely low standards when it comes to picture quality. This is how a show should look when it has been remastered properly

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So even if CBS went that route with DS9 and Voyager, they would be fine. Enterprise even had the CGI of Seasons 1&2 rendered in 480i and upconverted to 1080p (looks better on DVD than broadcast or Blu-Ray) and even now that’s good enough for HD broadcasters in 2023.

Apples and oranges. Enterprise was widescreen, shot on film and transferred to HD. While season one effects shots were in 480i, in season 2 it was 720 p and by Season 4 had went full HD.

 

[XweAponX]

I think they might have just cropped some scenes to fit?

It has been a while, watched it. I remember when they started promoting the HD version of next generation, they would show a few scenes in 16x9. Which sparked a lot of questions whether or not the show was going to be released that way, but it never was.

we know from history, Babylon five was actually filmed in 16x9, so that when they released media later, it was easier to reformat it that way. I don’t think the three big Star Trek shows of the 90s, TNG, DS9 and VOY were filmed that way, or if they were, it was problematic to reformat the show, especially after the special effects portion of it only existed on videotape. My understanding is that they had to re-create all of the special effects for the whole show, which caused some of them to look different, including Geordies magnificent fight with “Mr. peanut“…

But the only thing that I have heard about deep space nine is that someone was considering using that AI technique to bump up the resolution.

I would have to watch what we left behind again to see if the scenes talked about we’re actually shown in 16x9 or if they just zoomed it.

sometimes when I am watching next generation will zoom in, but I never do that with deep space nine, The best resolution that we can get is 480, and 480 does not stand up to zooming.

Although I have heard of a fan release of deep space nine, where they were able to bump up the resolution and sharpen the image slightly… I think they used that same process on Voyager as well.

 

[tomswift2002]

Sure it can be upscaled, but it will look like crap.

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Not the pure live action. That can be scanned from the film.

And I'm still waiting for your source stating that DS9 and Voyager were over engineered in order to be used in films.[/i
They were using some of the CGI models in “First Contact” and the other TNG films of the era. The Prometheus model even appeared in HD in Enterprise when Archer was on the Enterprise-J. Plus they re-rendered the original CGI for what was used in What You Leave Behind. And the whole Ships of the Line calendar and book line was launched because the VFX crew over-engineered the opening shot of Relativity with Utopia Planitia. In Star Trek The Magazine Vol 2. Issue 9 Adam Lobowitz said this about how high the were working for CGI on Voyager, specifically “Relativity”:

In fact, the whole time we were working on the episode, we thought it was a shame that the people at home would only see this stuff on blurry TV screens, and not in the high-resolution glory we had created them in."

Also, when you compare the CGI in DS9 and Voyager it’s a lot more photorealistic than the CGI that they are doing now that looks like something from a Amiga Toaster. Or even CGI that other shows of the time we’re using.

I just posted links showing you it was a more difficult process than that. Those are facts I posted, not opinions.[/i]
They are opinions. And old ones at that.

Then you have extremely low standards when it comes to picture quality. This is how a show should look when it has been remastered properly[/i]
It’s not the best option but if CBS didn’t want to spend the money re-rendering the CGI, it’s better than nothing and with SeaQuest DSV, because the underwater scenes are very dark, it works pretty well with the odd bit of de-interlacing artifacts. Even the recent HD remaster of Babylon 5 was scanned from film where the SFX had been transferred from 480i sources in the 90’s. Albeit in 4:3, but the scans were still in HD.

Apples and oranges. Enterprise was widescreen, shot on film and transferred to HD. While season one effects shots were in 480i, in season 2 it was 720 p and by Season 4 had went full HD.

Season 2 effect shots were done in 480i and then Season 3 & 4 were in 720p. In Season 2, take a look on the episode where Archer recalls the early days of the NX program. There’s a shot of Trip watching the test ship leaving the hangar with Trip in front—-blue screen composite image. On the DVD the shot looks fine, on Blu-Ray it’s trash and the CGI even has interlace issues.

So, the governments should dictate what companies should do?

I just don't see the demand for this HD remake.

Yes governments are going to start dictating what can and can not be aired. Because they have been conducting studies and their studies show that, even if the consumer is watching a 1080i OTA via rabbit ears, a progressive source makes that image appear to the consumer much more sharper and clearer.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes governments are going to start dictating what can and can not be aired. Because they have been conducting studies and their studies show that, even if the consumer is watching a 1080i OTA via rabbit ears, a progressive source makes that image appear to the consumer much more sharper and clearer..

And that's....no I can't see any good coming from this.

Because that demonstrates that there is no market demand for it, so again people are demanding the studio make something that clearly has no demand for it. So, please Paramount spend money you don't have to make a loss on something. Brilliant business strategy!

 

[tomswift2002]

And that's....no I can't see any good coming from this.

Because that demonstrates that there is no market demand for it, so again people are demanding the studio make something that clearly has no demand for it. So, please Paramount spend money you don't have to make a loss on something. Brilliant business strategy!

The governments are also pushing for 720p to be the new SD standard. Yeah, that’s going to push a lot of sitcoms from the 70’s to the 2000’s that were shot on 480i/576i videotape off of airwaves, however if a show can be successfully supplied at at least 720p, they’ll survive the new government regulations around the world.

And your business logic is illogical. Any business man knows that in order to make money you need to spend money. And if that means having to spend money to keep something relevant and to fall within the law, then it makes more sense to spend the money now, before the cost goes up and the law goes into effect.

Right now, when we look at SCI-Fi shows from the 80’s and 90’s, we have Babylon 5, SeaQuest DSV, Quantum Leap and Star Trek The Next Generation in HD or partial-HD, which the studios can supply in 720p.

Also, even streaming sites are abandoning 480p (and for shows from 480i sources, they have had to de-interlace the video, and if they did the quick and dirty way, like DS9 & Voyager then you’ll have extremely poor 480p files to start with). So if you are watching any SD stuff on Netflix, like “Alf”, “Full House” or “Home Improvement” or DS9 or Voyager, all that stuff is being streamed from upscaled HD files provided by the studios themselves or Netflix themselves are using software to upscale the provided 480p that they have from the studios. How soon will it be before Paramount Plus, Disney Plus, HBO Max or other streaming services (even CRAVE here in Canada, and to a larger extent, Bell Media with their broadcasting stations like CTV SCI-FI) announce that they are abandoning 480p and start requiring files in a minimum of 720p? And how many will say that if that 720p file is sourced from a 480i/576i source, even if it was a “90’s broadcast quality source” (I.e. D2 Composite, Betacam SP, Digital Betacam, U-Matic), they just won’t accept it? Think about what’ll happen when Paramount+ tells their corporate sibling “Look, we are dropping DS9 and Voyager because they no longer meet our video quality standards, even if you do a rescan of the original 90’s/2000’s D2 Composite tapes through a Terranex.” Basically it’s getting to the point where CBS will only be able to sell DS9 and Voyager to the public on DVD. And the only other way would be individuals uploading episodes to YouTube from VHS, laserdisc and DVD—-but then there would be the copyright issue, since I would assume that YouTube would adopt similar policies for videos uploaded by professional studios, such as CBS, whereas they might have more relaxed rules for private individuals that upload old family videos for their families to view.
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1665723733

 

[fireproof78]

And your business logic is illogical. Any business man knows that in order to make money you need to spend money. And if that means having to spend money to keep something relevant and to fall within the law, then it makes more sense to spend the money now, before the cost goes

But there's no demand for it.

 

[XweAponX]

The governments are also pushing for 720p to be the new SD standard. Yeah, that’s going to push a lot of sitcoms from the 70’s to the 2000’s that were shot on 480i/576i videotape off of airwaves, however if a show can be successfully supplied at at least 720p, they’ll survive the new government regulations around the world.

that would suck if they denied access to things that were 480i…

that resolution doesn’t really bother me that much, I used to watch DVDs all the time. 720 would be fine as long as they could bump up the resolution of older shows…

 

[tomswift2002]

But there's no demand for it.

There’s a demand for it now while it’s available. But there will be no demand for it when people can not access it. And that’s your illogic.

 

[fireproof78]

There’s a demand for it now while it’s available. But there will be no demand for it when people can not access it. And that’s your illogic.

Enough to justify the cost?

Because earlier you stated that DS9 and VOY are already costing them money. So this is money on top of money as a loss in theory to maybe someday gain something, not because of market demands but government demands.

Again, if the demand is there enough for CBS to make money on DS9 then I'd welcome it. Thus far it sounds like people want it to happen, and are trying to will it in to existence, regardless of demand.

 

[tomswift2002]

that would suck if they denied access to things that were 480i…

that resolution doesn’t really bother me that much, I used to watch DVDs all the time. 720 would be fine as long as they could bump up the resolution of older shows…

480i/576i has a flaw built into it that even goes through to upscale via Terranex, where the hardware combines the information from both 240p fields, and that’s that it has a “blur” effect built into it, in order to blur rounded objects, so that you don’t get that stair-step artifact on shoulders or wheels, etc.