Just Started Avatar The Last Airbender

[ProtoAvatar]

On this note I just saw ep 10 "Jet" which raised the question about killing. The characters take a moral stance against this guy killing enemy soldiers. Does this mean in the entire series they'll never kill anyone? Or will it be the convenient "they fell to their deaths on their own" type thing?

Since you requested the information - yes, "the heroes never kill anyone" and "the villains fell to their deaths on their own" is a feature of the series.
Which wouldn't be a problem if the series wouldn't present a large scale war, where such light-heartedness is many times...unrealistic, where it shatters the suspension of disbelief.

 

[exodus]

Avatar: The Last Airbender is a good show, but at times one can see that its target audience is composed of children - the show is too light-hearted, it tries too much to avoid grit.

Where is it written that adults can't appreciate a light-hearted, non-gritty story? Why should adults be trapped by such narrow definitions of what constitutes "adult" programming? Why should adults only watch programming that's forbidden to children, as opposed to programming that's accessible to children and adults alike?

The best children's shows have always had plenty of adult appeal -- Rocky and Bullwinkle, Doctor Who, Batman: TAS, Gargoyles, and so on. "Adult" programming doesn't have to mean only grit and violence and sex and overuse of four-letter Anglo-Saxon vocabulary. It should mean programming that's intelligent, imaginative, multifaceted, and well-made. And there's no reason in the world why children's programming can't fit those standards. Indeed, don't we owe it to our children to give them the very best we can offer? And if we do so, then the shows that result can be satisfying for children and adults alike.

And Avatar: TLA was the best, smartest, richest children's show of the 2000s, and that makes it one of the best, smartest, richest shows of the 2000s. It's more than good enough to satisfy any adult who defines adult sensibilities in terms of good, smart storytelling rather than R-rated content alone.

Christopher, adults can, indeed, appreciate a light-hearted, non-gritty story. And many shows targeted at adults are, indeed, light-hearted and non-gritty - comedies, etc; but not war movies.

And Avatar depicts a large scale war. Which is why the light-hearted, non-gritty tone is, sometimes, inappropriate/grating - if we judge Avatar by adult sensibilities.

Inappropriate/grating?


It's a show on Nickelodeon, not the History channel.
The networks moto is: The network for kids designed by kids. How gritty do you expect a show on a childrens network to be?

We grew up on G.I Joe, a show about war & international terrorism.
When was that ever gritty?

True adult sensiblities would take all that into account and never expect a show too graphic for the general audience it's geared too.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Christopher, adults can, indeed, appreciate a light-hearted, non-gritty story. And many shows targeted at adults are, indeed, light-hearted and non-gritty - comedies, etc; but not war movies.

And Avatar depicts a large scale war. Which is why the light-hearted, non-gritty tone is, sometimes, inappropriate/grating - if we judge Avatar by adult sensibilities.

Inappropriate/grating?


It's a show on Nickelodeon, not the History channel.
The networks moto is: The network for kids designed by kids. How gritty do you expect a show on a childrens network to be?

I did say "if we judge Avatar by adult sensibilities", exodus.

 

[exodus]

Christopher, adults can, indeed, appreciate a light-hearted, non-gritty story. And many shows targeted at adults are, indeed, light-hearted and non-gritty - comedies, etc; but not war movies.

And Avatar depicts a large scale war. Which is why the light-hearted, non-gritty tone is, sometimes, inappropriate/grating - if we judge Avatar by adult sensibilities.

Inappropriate/grating?


It's a show on Nickelodeon, not the History channel.
The networks moto is: The network for kids designed by kids. How gritty do you expect a show on a childrens network to be?

I did say "if we judge Avatar by adult sensibilities", exodus.

And this was my reply:

True adult sensiblities would take all that into account and never expect a show too graphic for the general audience it's geared too.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Inappropriate/grating?


It's a show on Nickelodeon, not the History channel.
The networks moto is: The network for kids designed by kids. How gritty do you expect a show on a childrens network to be?

I did say "if we judge Avatar by adult sensibilities", exodus.

And this was my reply:

True adult sensiblities would take all that into account and never expect a show too graphic for the general audience it's geared too.

exodus, this thread is about what I think about Avatar, how I liked the series, not about how I think children like it.

Children may not have a problem with Avatar's non-grittyness. However, such tone is sometimes hard to swallow for me, considering Avatar's plot.

 

[exodus]

I did say "if we judge Avatar by adult sensibilities", exodus.

And this was my reply:

True adult sensiblities would take all that into account and never expect a show too graphic for the general audience it's geared too.

exodus, this thread is about what I think about Avatar, how I liked the series, not about how I think children like it.

Children may not have a problem with Avatar's non-grittyness. However, such tone is sometimes hard to swallow for me, considering Avatar's plot.

So I'll ask you again: Why would you as an adult expect a show on a childrens network design for kids to have a gritty show about war?

 

[ProtoAvatar]

And this was my reply:

True adult sensiblities would take all that into account and never expect a show too graphic for the general audience it's geared too.

exodus, this thread is about what I think about Avatar, how I liked the series, not about how I think children like it.

Children may not have a problem with Avatar's non-grittyness. However, such tone is sometimes hard to swallow for me, considering Avatar's plot.

So I'll ask you again: Why would you as an adult expect a show on a childrens network design for kids to have a gritty show about war?

I don't expect a children's show to be gritty. That doesn't change the fact that - from an adult perspective - the quality of the show decreases if this show treats themes that are largely incompatible with light-heartedness.

 

[Christopher]

I don't expect a children's show to be gritty. That doesn't change the fact that - from an adult perspective - the quality of the show decreases if this show treats themes that are largely incompatible with light-heartedness.

You mean from your perspective. Don't pretend you speak for all adults.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

I don't expect a children's show to be gritty. That doesn't change the fact that - from an adult perspective - the quality of the show decreases if this show treats themes that are largely incompatible with light-heartedness.

You mean from your perspective. Don't pretend you speak for all adults.

I made more than clear in my previous posts that I speak for myself and not for others, Christopher.

 

[exodus]

I don't expect a children's show to be gritty. That doesn't change the fact that - from an adult perspective - the quality of the show decreases if this show treats themes that are largely incompatible with light-heartedness.

You mean from your perspective. Don't pretend you speak for all adults.

Yes, exactly.

However, I think we should move on.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

there's Zhao's uncle who is hilarious and insightful.

actually it's Zuko's uncle. Zuko is ethe exiled prince Zhao is the jackass trying to steal his thunder.

 

[Mr Light]

Just saw a great episode "The Storm" which reveals the back story of Aang and Zuko. I was wondering the circumstances of how Aang ended up in the iceberg. No wonder when he thaws out the first thing he wants to do is go penguin sledding with a pretty girl! It was nice to see his moment of weakness and the tragedy of his life at the temple, intercut with Zuko's own tragedy. I like how Aaang was the selfish one and Zuko was the noble one and they were both punished for their decisions. I also liked how the first appearance of the Fire Lord was done entirely in silhouette to build the mystery; it would have been even better if we didn't hear his voice just Iroh narrating what he said. One thing I still don't completely understand, did Aang intentionally freeze himself in ice or did he screw up? I guess he hit a huge wave and they ended up deep in the ocean, so he chose to freeze himself rather than drown? Or try to just fly back to the surface?

 

[LaxScrutiny]

On this note I just saw ep 10 "Jet" which raised the question about killing. The characters take a moral stance against this guy killing enemy soldiers. Does this mean in the entire series they'll never kill anyone? Or will it be the convenient "they fell to their deaths on their own" type thing?

Since you requested the information - yes, "the heroes never kill anyone" and "the villains fell to their deaths on their own" is a feature of the series.
Which wouldn't be a problem if the series wouldn't present a large scale war, where such light-heartedness is many times...unrealistic, where it shatters the suspension of disbelief.

I'm not saying in "real life" there aren't such things as child soldiers, or that a 10 year old never murdered anyone, but generally speaking we are talking about a world where the soldiers are adults and the main protagonists are chldren. No, they aren't killers. The fact that they have to go through the world witnessing the devastation, both physical and environmental, and the emotional devestation on survivors, is plenty gritty.

The "team" has travel and keep out of sight for the most part, frankly if they were a pack of sub-teen assassins picking of fire nation baddies one by one I would find that a little less than believable.

 

[Christopher]

One thing I still don't completely understand, did Aang intentionally freeze himself in ice or did he screw up? I guess he hit a huge wave and they ended up deep in the ocean, so he chose to freeze himself rather than drown? Or try to just fly back to the surface?

You'll understand better as future episodes explain more about the Avatar State. Let's just say that it was more instinct than choice.

 

[Mr Light]

OK I just finished Book One. Excellent finale! Can't wait to see this in the movie. I'm guessing the movie is basically going to be the first three and last three episodes of the season. The only thing I thought was a little dumb was the moon spirit just being a fish- it would have been much better if the princess was the literal moon spirit and she had to be sacrificed. Speaking of which I'm confused about the ending; it looked like Aang became the new moon spirit when he became the big water monster... but then the princess did. So what was Aang then? And speaking of our no-kill rule... when Aang as the water monster destroys the entire Fire Nation fleet stranding thousands of enemy soldiers in freezing water... you mean to tell me nobody died?! It was great to learn more backstory on Iroh (he failed to take the Earth Kingdom capitol... has a personal interest in spirits) and damn cool to see him kick the **** out of Zhao! I'm guessing that next season Iroh and his nephew will defect to the good guys-- but don't tell me! So the teaser trailer of the movie where Aang is alone in the mountain temple as the entire Fire Nation fleet attacks him... was that supposed to be the finale? I don't recall it being in an icy location. Or would that be the opening flashback of him being there when the Air Temple is attacked, versus the series where he runs off right before that happens?

 

[Christopher]

The only thing I thought was a little dumb was the moon spirit just being a fish- it would have been much better if the princess was the literal moon spirit and she had to be sacrificed.

There's nothing "just" about it being a fish. There's an ongoing theme in the series of the various bending cultures being linked with animals that embody the bending abilities.

Besides, in Japan, koi are a symbol of love and friendship, so the connection with Sokka's first love is not arbitrary.

And where do you get the idea that Princess Yueh isn't the literal moon spirit?

Speaking of which I'm confused about the ending; it looked like Aang became the new moon spirit when he became the big water monster... but then the princess did. So what was Aang then?

Been a while since I've seen it, but I think Aang was just channeling the spirit while in the Avatar State.

And speaking of our no-kill rule... when Aang as the water monster destroys the entire Fire Nation fleet stranding thousands of enemy soldiers in freezing water... you mean to tell me nobody died?!

Retroactively, that's apparently the case, though I agree it's hard to believe.

It was great to learn more backstory on Iroh (he failed to take the Earth Kingdom capitol... has a personal interest in spirits) and damn cool to see him kick the **** out of Zhao!

You ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to Iroh.

I'm guessing that next season Iroh and his nephew will defect to the good guys-- but don't tell me!

Okay, I won't...

So the teaser trailer of the movie where Aang is alone in the mountain temple as the entire Fire Nation fleet attacks him... was that supposed to be the finale? I don't recall it being in an icy location. Or would that be the opening flashback of him being there when the Air Temple is attacked, versus the series where he runs off right before that happens?

These days, what we see in teaser trailers is often created solely for the trailer and not part of the movie itself. Cf. the giant spiderweb between the World Trade Center towers in the Spider-Man teaser trailer (often misreported as something cut from the film after 9/11, when it was never actually part of the film itself) and the construction of the Enterprise in the Star Trek teaser trailer.

 

[Mr Light]

So when Mako passes away and a new voice actor takes over, is there a noticeable difference? I love that guy's voice. ... I get that Yueh is now the personification of the moon spirit, but I'm just saying it would have been more tragic/dramatic if the creature being held hostage was a living person rather than a fish.

 

[Christopher]

So when Mako passes away and a new voice actor takes over, is there a noticeable difference?

I think so, but others may not; I have a pretty sensitive ear. Greg Baldwin does a superb impression of Mako c. the 1970s, but that doesn't quite match the older, more gravelly and animated (no pun intended) Mako of the 2000s. And he's not as good an actor as Mako was.

Still, they did what they could to ease the transition. You'll see what I mean when you get to season 3.

I love that guy's voice.

He was irreplaceable.

... I get that Yueh is now the personification of the moon spirit, but I'm just saying it would have been more tragic/dramatic if the creature being held hostage was a living person rather than a fish.

Well, it is a kids' show. It can be pretty intense for a kids' show, but still. And the koi thing does fit into the larger mythology, as I said.

 

[exodus]

So when Mako passes away and a new voice actor takes over, is there a noticeable difference? I love that guy's voice. ...

Slightly.....but they also seem to scale back Uncle's part at that point too, so he doesn't have much reason to speak.

BTW, Ang was the Moon Spirit in it's "angry" form.
the Avatar is the link between the real world and the spirit one & spirits take on a different form when angered. the Spirits are connected to things of nature, so they wouldn't take on human forms. A Fish makes sense because the moon is connected to the waters tide and representive of waterbending.

You'll learn later that bending is linked to certain animals of that element.

 

[Mr Light]

Just saw the first two eps of S2. Learned a little more about the Avatar Form. I like the idea of an Earth General trying to force Aang into going after the Fire Lord right *now*, it reasonably deals with that question I was just starting to wonder. So in the "cave of lovers" episode, those giant moles were supposed to be the inventors of Earth bending and taught it to humans? Literally those moles, or just moles in general? Also I thought it was cool that the new evil sister has lightning powers, it's a nice twist/addition to the fire stuff.