Just great!! Another fan production....

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's the studio's job to spend their hundreds of millions to recruit new and "modern fans" - and I'm all for it.

We're entertaining the people we entertain, and so far that seems to be working pretty well.

I used to act in community theater - I loved it, and the other folks involved were creative people and fun to deal with. Some shows would sell out the house, and most of the folks coming to the popular shows weren't there because they knew someone in the shows but because a lot of folks like community and amateur theater.

That said, there was never a chance that we were going to advance live theatre as an art form or be nominated for Tonys. Didn't make a difference to us.

 

[Tom]

Anything that Jack is involved in producing im all for

 

[Maurice]

All that said, I'm with Rama. I am no fan of Filmation's "animation" (aka illustrated radio) style. It isn't anything that interests me, especially given that such a format really leans on the actor's voice abilities to carry it, and none of the casts of any of the fan films have vocal presence.

No dis to the people making it, but it's not everyone's cuppa.

 

[RAMA]

That simply HAS to look exactly like something produced 30-40 years with no imagination. Professional productions realize that they have to move on but the fans can't seem to fathom this. Unfortunately it will me more of the same....

http://www.trektoday.com/news/190508_01.shtml

I think they are limiting their audience. Sure New Voyages has gained some press, but that press won't bring in any new fans (i'm talking about millions of fans who watched STNG but no longer watched the other series after), and I doubt fans who only like the new series will be drawn in by the same old production designs.

YES I realize producing these fan shows are a lot of work and that's the whole reason I say, why not produce something original?? Enterprise is berated by some fans for not looking like it occurred before TOS, well guess what, it was PRODCUED after! The producers got it right! If anything they erred on the side of caution with technology but they at least tried to make something futuristic that was still in line with TOS. Similarly, faithfully reproducing a cartoon series which could be made better in this day and age--as someone mentioned-- by a few animators instead of a whole studio would also seem to lend itself to some re-design work instead of slaving themselves to work that is out of date and crude by most post 90s standards. I just think fans are talented, and better than this. So far they've proven me wrong.

RAMA

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Sure New Voyages has gained some press, but that press won't bring in any new fans (i'm talking about millions of fans who watched STNG but no longer watched the other series after), and I doubt fans who only like the new series will be drawn in by the same old production designs.

You don't seem to recognize that what you're defining as the only worthwhile goal is not necessarily one that other people share or necessarily should share.

I don't think many of us who've done the TOS-style stuff are under any illusions that we're going to convert people who prefer modern Trek or a contemporary style of entertainment. Most of us aren't interested in doing that.

I agree that it would be cool to see something original grow out of the fan film community - but by "original" I mean something that doesn't utilize any direct association to "Star Trek" (or BSG, or "Firefly" or any other existing property) or its trademarks. I've been working on something along those lines for a while, with a couple of other "fan film" people - but that doesn't mean that what we have in mind will fit your (apparent) definition of "modern" either.

Not everyone equally enjoys or is well-served as an audience by contemporary styles of entertainment, and there's no reason at all that everyone involved in creating movies on a shoestring ought to be competing for exactly the same market that the studios have hundreds of millions of dollars to spend on satisfying.

 

[Kemaiku]

I caught the announcement of this over at TrekMovie, and the preview screencaps and I have to say after having seen TAS recently I love the idea and was amazed how close this project has come to emulating the original look. So I'll be checking out the episodes, dialup permitting lol.

 

[Kail]

Rama, you seem to be missing the point. We are not trying to create new fans with cutting edge production values. We are trying to entertain fans who have fond memories of TAS.

 

[GothTrek]

When is the last time ANYONE saw any original Trek related projects? It's all been done before and it will all be done again.

 

[doubleohfive]

You know RAMA, it is entirely possible that the good people who make these fan films are NOT doing it to attract more, new fans. Some of them are doing it to test their technical and creative skill in filmmaking. Others are doing it simply to play dress-up.

I guess my question to you would be, what was the last film you made? Where can I download and view it? And when I do, are you prepared for it to be critiqued?

I find it so amusingly foolish and frankly a little sad that so many Trek fans are so quick to judge a project before they even see it. The Trek XI forum is full of these jackholes. How about you watch the thing before you crucify it? Further, it is disheartening to me that after all these years, after that long time period of "fan" Trek-only during the '70s, that so many Trek fans are so quick to pounce on one another whenever someone tries to do something creative.

Perhaps the reason these fan films get made is because the people making them are having fun.

 

[Amaris]

I was never a fan of TAS, but this looks fantastic. I am a fan of the Starship Farragut crew, so I am eager about this production.

J.

 

[Kail]

I had this thought today, compare our project to the hundreds of thousands of tribute bands out there. Be they Beatles tributes, or AC/DC, or whatever. The bands do it for fun, and to entertain other fans, not to be on the cutting edge or to recruit new fans. It's a TRIBUTE, a homage. It's not meant to be original. Original is a totally different animal. Also, how do you expect fans working with what little money they can scrape up themselves to create Star Trek episodes that match up to todays professional productions?

 

[Maurice]

I had this thought today, compare our project to the hundreds of thousands of tribute bands out there. Be they Beatles tributes, or AC/DC, or whatever. The bands do it for fun, and to entertain other fans, not to be on the cutting edge or to recruit new fans. It's a TRIBUTE, a homage. It's not meant to be original. Original is a totally different animal. Also, how do you expect fans working with what little money they can scrape up themselves to create Star Trek episodes that match up to todays professional productions?

You're kinda of making two arguments there, Kail. There's nothing inherently expensive about something original. I can think of a dozen animation style variations that would be easier and less time consuming to produce than the TAS style with it's rigidly realistic human proportions (and, yes, I *have* animated, it's how I got in the videogame business).

I'm not knocking anyone's decision to do TAS. It just doesn't necessarily interest me, for reasons stated previously. If people want to do a TAS clone, so be it, but let's not make unfounded justifications for it.

I guess my question to you would be, what was the last film you made? Where can I download and view it? And when I do, are you prepared for it to be critiqued?

Rama's opinion, well it's his opinion. Asking him what has he done is like expecting people not to criticise a book because they've never written one. It's a fairly ridiculous standard.

 

[doubleohfive]

Not if the question is being asked because he's criticizing the way this fan production is being made the way its being made. Artists make creative decisions all the time. When you whittle away all the crap in this thread, RAMA is pretty much bitching about how he doesn't want another Filmation cartoon. That's swell. Let him go ahead and make one.

 

[Kail]

You're kinda of making two arguments there, Kail. There's nothing inherently expensive about something original. I can think of a dozen animation style variations that would be easier and less time consuming to produce than the TAS style with it's rigidly realistic human proportions (and, yes, I *have* animated, it's how I got in the videogame business).

I'm not knocking anyone's decision to do TAS. It just doesn't necessarily interest me, for reasons stated previously. If people want to do a TAS clone, so be it, but let's not make unfounded justifications for it.

I'm not making unfounded justifications, I was referring to Ramas comments about how fans should be meeting modern Treks production values in their amateur productions. And I WAS making two arguments as I was addressing two seperate issues. I VERY clearly stated the reason one would try to recreate a show from thirty years ago, AND I was pointing out why fans don't produce original cutting edge Star Trek designed to bring in and interest new fans. Two issues, two arguments.

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

Fans are entitled to try making whatever style fan productions they can afford and want to make. Personally, I like the TAS style animation and am looking forward to seeing this.

Surely, fan productions are made to express the artistic and stylistic preferences of the makers? Doesn't it all boil down to "I liked that show and want to make something like it"? There is no need to justify doing an animation other than it is what you want to do.

 

[FalTorPan]

I'm not much of a fan of TAS' look, although I enjoyed the show immensely -- and I enjoyed many other Filmation productions (particularly Blackstar, He-Man and the Masters of the Universe and She-Ra: Princess of Power). Having said that, the Farragut offering looks like great fun, and I look forward to watching the finished product!

 

[CDR Tacket]

Rama and DS9Sega

Let me make this absolutely clear. You don't have to watch it. comment all you want, but save the bandwidth when this comes out for those that want to see it.

We collectively do this because we like TOS. It is not to recruit new viewers to what we do, although that has happened. It is an avenue to bring back Trek the way we remember it. If you think it is easier and cheaper to do it the same way you would a video game, then be my guest and do one.

One thing that we have learned from producing Starship Farragut is that you cannot change cannon. Sure you can add something that has never been seen before like the experimental phaser rifle or the field jackets. But tweak something that has been established and you open a hornets nest. I cannot tell you the amount of email we received just because someones hair style was not TOS 60's or that our engineer wears pants.

Mutarada is correct in asking what Rama has produced. for that same reason I have to ask DS9Sega what video games you were associated with and what parts did you do for the animation? Let us be the judge of your creation. Were waiting!

For those that work on the animation project that frequent this forum, thank you for your efforts. We are looking forward to seeing the final product. If there is anything that you would like from us, let me know.

Michael

 

[Thalek]

Similarly, faithfully reproducing a cartoon series which could be made better in this day and age--as someone mentioned-- by a few animators instead of a whole studio would also seem to lend itself to some re-design work instead of slaving themselves to work that is out of date and crude by most post 90s standards. I just think fans are talented, and better than this. So far they've proven me wrong.

RAMA

I guess I keep missing your point. What I'm hearing is that they shouldn't be embarking on this project because it doesn't meet your standards. I'm hearing that they shouldn't be doing this for their own enjoyment, but for yours.

Do I have that right?

 

[Wowbagger]

What I want to know is what Polaris is up to. I recall reading Exeter Studio's list of "Future Projects," and a few of them piqued my interest.

 

[Maurice]

Rama and DS9Sega
Let me make this absolutely clear. You don't have to watch it. comment all you want, but save the bandwidth when this comes out for those that want to see it.

Wthe heck does "save the bandwidth" mean? Don't download it? I wasn't aware there was a bandwidth shortage.

And to clarify my point, earlier I said "I'm not knocking anyone's decision to do TAS. It just doesn't necessarily interest me, for reasons stated previously."

If you're going to put your work out there, expect to have it criticised, whether you find that fair or not. I've done it for 20 years (making video and computer games). It goes with the territory.