Just finished Season 5 of Babylon 5

[JoeD80]

The third Bester book touches on it lightly, but doesn't really go into details.

It also touches lightly on Crusade as well, giving a quick mention to the Excalibur's "success" in finding a cure to the Drakh Plague; however, the book doesn't, iirc, mention how it was found or what happened to the crew.

There are some small details about events in the telepath war in the book:

Spoiler: The Fate of Bester

We learn that Bester's girlfriend Carolyn from "Ship of Tears" was killed in a terrorist explosion likely financed by Garibaldi. We learn that Lyta died in the Telepath War and Garibaldi is sure Bester is responsible. And of course we learn that Garibaldi had his blocks removed. I also recall a description of Bester walking into a trap that Lyta set up and he sensed it and escaped but many others in the Psi Corps died.

What's mentioned in the book related to Crusade is

Spoiler: The Fate of Bester

The cure was found, but Earth made a new quarantine policy that wouldn't allow any ships to enter for fear of new plagues coming in. Bester had to sneak in through the new quarantine to get back to Earth.

 

[ATimson]

It also touches lightly on Crusade as well, giving a quick mention to the Excalibur's "success" in finding a cure to the Drakh Plague; however, the book doesn't, iirc, mention how it was found or what happened to the crew.

That's not exactly "new", though, seeing as how Franklin appears in "Sleeping in Light"!

 

[Harvey]

It also touches lightly on Crusade as well, giving a quick mention to the Excalibur's "success" in finding a cure to the Drakh Plague; however, the book doesn't, iirc, mention how it was found or what happened to the crew.

That's not exactly "new", though, seeing as how Franklin appears in "Sleeping in Light"!

Beyond indicating that it was the Excalibur and Gideon's crew that cured the plague and not someone or something else...yeah, about right.

 

[Neroon]

Spoiler: The Fate of Bester

We learn that Bester's girlfriend Carolyn from "Ship of Tears" was killed in a terrorist explosion likely financed by Garibaldi. We learn that Lyta died in the Telepath War and Garibaldi is sure Bester is responsible. And of course we learn that Garibaldi had his blocks removed. I also recall a description of Bester walking into a trap that Lyta set up and he sensed it and escaped but many others in the Psi Corps died.

Have you read J. Gregory Keyes short story, "The Nautilus Coil" ?

 

[JoeD80]

I actually never got a chance to read that one. I have only read the B5 short stories that were in Amazing Stories.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

It also touches lightly on Crusade as well, giving a quick mention to the Excalibur's "success" in finding a cure to the Drakh Plague; however, the book doesn't, iirc, mention how it was found or what happened to the crew.

That's not exactly "new", though, seeing as how Franklin appears in "Sleeping in Light"!

Well, of course, we've known all along that Earth survives as seen in "Sleeping in Light" with Franklin and in "Deconstruction of Falling Stars" since we get a peek at Earth 100 years into B5's future and farther.

The book, as Hirogen Alpha points out, does tells us that it was specifically the Excalibur crew that found the cure. It also provides us with a bit of a time stamp on those event as it gives us a vague idea about when in the History of The Babylon 5 Universe it happened.

Nevertheless, we know that Crusade was not going to be just about finding the cure in the end. It was the impetus of getting the Excalibur out there where the crew would unravel a greater mystery and danger to the Earth. As JMS stated, the show you thought you were watching at first wouldn't be the same show you watched after five years. It's kinda how like in the first two years of Babylon 5, the show was about preventing another war ("Last, best hope for peace") but ended up being about the wars that transform the characters and the future ("Last, best hope for victory").

 

[DS9Continuing]

How did you feel about the telepath arc in the first half of season 5?

The whole thing is a complete waste of time.

The telepath arc was never supposed to be what it ended up being. It was only ever intended as a small part of season 5 in the "original" plan, but a variety of factors screwed up those plans.

a) the potential cancellation after season 4, leading to being forced to cram as much arc material as possible into season 4 and artificially stretch out season 5
b) Claudia Christian's decision to leave requiring the creation, casting and introduction of Lochley while everything else was going on
c) JMS's detailed notes for early season 5 episodes being thrown out by hotel staff during a convention

In these circumstances, JMS clung onto what little he could remember of his plans for season 5 - namely the telepath stuff - and rode it to safety while the rest of everything sorted itself out. That's why it's so prominent in the early part of the season - it's all he could remember.

 

[JoeD80]

a) the potential cancellation after season 4, leading to being forced to cram as much arc material as possible into season 4 and artificially stretch out season 5

This part isn't quite right. He didn't "cram as much arc material as possible" into season 4 and have to artificially stretch out season 5. Most of what's in season 4 was planned for season 4, with the exception of only two threads --

Spoiler: season 4

the end of the Earth civil war, and the end of the Minbari civil war.

The reason season 5 seems stretched was because of what you mention later -- his notes for season 5 were thrown out and the Byron thread is what he remembered clearly. Also, the "Empire Building" threads that were planned for season 5 were never done when the idea for a followup series that would follow up those threads was nixed.

 

[Jan]

Plus the fact that all of the stand-alones that we might have ordinarily gotten in Season 4 were shifted to Season 5. Personally, I love them but a lot of folks are of the opinion that if it's not an arc episode it's a waste of time. That's one reason why people claim that Season 1 is slow and episodes can be skipped, which I strenuously disagree with.

Jan

 

[Harvey]

I don't think a lot of episodes in season one can or should be skipped, but a lot of them are negatively effected by worse than usual guest acting (Deathwalker, for example), visual and special effects that were not up to snuff (the insect alien, the Infection creature, the creature in Grail, spotty CGI in battle sequences), and a writing style that was still being developed (Midnight on the Firing Line's difficulties with the diplomacy thread, for example). All things that would be greatly improved a year or two down the line (although the show always had a weak spot for casting less than stellar guest actors, often surprisingly weak given their past filmographies).

Season five has other problems, but those have been addressed here, and, on a whole, it is far better than season one.

Nearly every episode is still worth watching, however. The dense nature of Babylon 5 is one that precludes a viewer from jettisoning even the most annoying of episodes (Infection), for they always contain a few very important plot or character details.

 

[MarianLH]

Lack of arc episodes is certainly not the only reason people dis the 1st season. But I agree with Jan that no episode should be skipped, at least for the first time through.


Marian

 

[JoeD80]

I don't think a lot of episodes in season one can or should be skipped, but a lot of them are negatively effected by worse than usual guest acting (Deathwalker, for example)

That's a strange example to me. Deathwalker was one of the episodes that really made me want to stick with the show the whole way (of course, I was already stuck with season one anyway having purchased it on DVD).

visual and special effects that were not up to snuff (the insect alien, the Infection creature, the creature in Grail, spotty CGI in battle sequences)

Don't agree with that; but perhaps it's because I learned to love shows no matter what level of effects they had, being a long time fan of Star Trek the original, and my mind just skips over effects that might not look good to others.

(Midnight on the Firing Line's difficulties with the diplomacy thread, for example).

Could you elaborate on this example because I have no idea what this refers to.

 

[Harvey]

I don't think a lot of episodes in season one can or should be skipped, but a lot of them are negatively effected by worse than usual guest acting (Deathwalker, for example)

That's a strange example to me. Deathwalker was one of the episodes that really made me want to stick with the show the whole way (of course, I was already stuck with season one anyway having purchased it on DVD).

While a decent episode, the decision to put solid contact lenses on the actress portraying Deathwalker hurts her performance. Larry DiTillo discusses this in the script books.

Perhaps this was not the best example, though.

visual and special effects that were not up to snuff (the insect alien, the Infection creature, the creature in Grail, spotty CGI in battle sequences)

Don't agree with that; but perhaps it's because I learned to love shows no matter what level of effects they had, being a long time fan of Star Trek the original, and my mind just skips over effects that might not look good to others.

JMS himself laments the rubber suit in Infection, and the insect alien is also refered to as a failed effort. Both in the script books.

(Midnight on the Firing Line's difficulties with the diplomacy thread, for example).

Could you elaborate on this example because I have no idea what this refers to.[/quote]

Basically, this a is a gripe that the scenes with the ambassadors sitting around the table aren't dramatized very well. Either JMS notes this as well in the script books, or it is a criticism that cropped up in the season by season guides.

I'd be more precise, but I have neither the episodes nor the script books in front of me, and should be studying for a midterm as well. So forgive me for falling back on other recollected sources.

 

[JoeD80]

While a decent episode, the decision to put solid contact lenses on the actress portraying Deathwalker hurts her performance. Larry DiTillo discusses this in the script books.

Ah, I thought you were talking about the actress in general. What Larry said in the book was

Sarah Douglas's acting was almost 90 percent in her wonderful eyes. The lenses covered them and even worse they were so uncomfortable it affected her performance. She was still good in the part but oh how I missed those eyes.

JMS himself laments the rubber suit in Infection, and the insect alien is also refered to as a failed effort. Both in the script books.

Yep he does mention that about Infection, but it honestly didn't bother me one way or the other, and that one is an episode I quite enjoy. I can understand jms' comment about n'grath not looking entirely sentient, but those I've introduced the show to all got a kick out of him. As I said though, it's not about the efx with me.

Basically, this a is a gripe that the scenes with the ambassadors sitting around the table aren't dramatized very well.

Although I don't think I ever noticed a problem personally, this would be a director's problem as opposed to writing style I think, unless the script said "everyone sits around looking bored and doing nothing" or something similar. There were apparently problems with Richard Compton who had been brought in as a co-producer at the beginning and directed "Infection", "Midnight on the Firing Line", "Believers", "The War Prayer", and "Grail" (as well as the pilot). Not sure entirely what the issue was, but jms did mention that Infection, War Prayer, and Grail were nearly impossible to edit, and Christy Marx's commentary on "Grail" mentions that Compton was fired. This might have lead to the problems with the ambassador scenes that you mention.

 

[Harvey]

Ah, I had forgotten to mention Compton. Thankfully he was let go, as his direction is visibly problematic as far as I'm concerned.

As before, your mileage may vary. There's a lot to like about season one. And, it's blasphemy to say, but Infection is the episode that turned me onto the series. Not the episode itself, so much, but the exchange Garibaldi and Sinclair have about things at the end.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

There were apparently problems with Richard Compton who had been brought in as a co-producer at the beginning and directed "Infection", "Midnight on the Firing Line", "Believers", "The War Prayer", and "Grail" (as well as the pilot). Not sure entirely what the issue was, but jms did mention that Infection, War Prayer, and Grail were nearly impossible to edit, and Christy Marx's commentary on "Grail" mentions that Compton was fired. This might have lead to the problems with the ambassador scenes that you mention.

Harlan Ellison didn't have nice things to say about Compton and blamed a lot of the problems with the original cut of "The Gathering" on him. IIRC, Ellison stated that Compton nearly killed Babylon 5 before it got a chance to start.

 

[Harvey]

There were apparently problems with Richard Compton who had been brought in as a co-producer at the beginning and directed "Infection", "Midnight on the Firing Line", "Believers", "The War Prayer", and "Grail" (as well as the pilot). Not sure entirely what the issue was, but jms did mention that Infection, War Prayer, and Grail were nearly impossible to edit, and Christy Marx's commentary on "Grail" mentions that Compton was fired. This might have lead to the problems with the ambassador scenes that you mention.

Harlan Ellison didn't have nice things to say about Compton and blamed a lot of the problems with the original cut of "The Gathering" on him. IIRC, Ellison stated that Compton nearly killed Babylon 5 before it got a chance to start.

I've heard this story more than a few times on this board, but can never seem to find a link or a source to back it up. Knowing Ellison, and knowing what little I've been able to find out about Compton, I don't doubt that it is true. I am still curious to hear more from the source, though. Is it from a blog? A book? Anyone know?

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

There were apparently problems with Richard Compton who had been brought in as a co-producer at the beginning and directed "Infection", "Midnight on the Firing Line", "Believers", "The War Prayer", and "Grail" (as well as the pilot). Not sure entirely what the issue was, but jms did mention that Infection, War Prayer, and Grail were nearly impossible to edit, and Christy Marx's commentary on "Grail" mentions that Compton was fired. This might have lead to the problems with the ambassador scenes that you mention.

Harlan Ellison didn't have nice things to say about Compton and blamed a lot of the problems with the original cut of "The Gathering" on him. IIRC, Ellison stated that Compton nearly killed Babylon 5 before it got a chance to start.

I've heard this story more than a few times on this board, but can never seem to find a link or a source to back it up. Knowing Ellison, and knowing what little I've been able to find out about Compton, I don't doubt that it is true. I am still curious to hear more from the source, though. Is it from a blog? A book? Anyone know?

Ellison's opinion was in a two-part inteview ("On the Edge of His Voice") that appeared in the defunct Titan magazine on the series.

 

[Harvey]

Harlan Ellison didn't have nice things to say about Compton and blamed a lot of the problems with the original cut of "The Gathering" on him. IIRC, Ellison stated that Compton nearly killed Babylon 5 before it got a chance to start.

I've heard this story more than a few times on this board, but can never seem to find a link or a source to back it up. Knowing Ellison, and knowing what little I've been able to find out about Compton, I don't doubt that it is true. I am still curious to hear more from the source, though. Is it from a blog? A book? Anyone know?

Ellison's opinion was in a two-part inteview ("On the Edge of His Voice") that appeared in the defunct Titan magazine on the series.

I don't suppose excerpts of that are online, or that you have a copy of the magazine?

I'm just not big on collecting magazines. Too fragile.

 

[Neroon]

Ellison's opinion was in a two-part inteview ("On the Edge of His Voice") that appeared in the defunct Titan magazine on the series.

I don't suppose excerpts of that are online, or that you have a copy of the magazine?

I'm just not big on collecting magazines. Too fragile.

Ehh... magazines were made to be read.

I all of the issues of the B5 magazine, but I'm not sure which have the Ellison interview in it. I'll see if I can find it, and get you the gist of it. That is, unless middyseafort can get to it sooner.