JRPG enthusiasts: When (if ever) did Square 'fall off' for you?

[Quinton O'Connor]

I'm actually not a big JRPG fan from a general perspective; with few exceptions, anything not made by Squaresoft hasn't really done anything for me. I've had a hundred-odd suggestions from GameFAQs' message boards over the years that I try Tales of Symphonia, which I hated, Persona 3, which I hated, Star Ocean 4, which I hated but the second one was decent... I don't know what it is, precisely, but if it isn't made by Square, there's a strong chance I'll hate it.

Anyway, this is a dead horse on gaming-oriented sites but in a place like TrekBBS, where I can't even guarantee there are ten of you reading this who have much interest in these sorts of games, I thought it might be fun to address.

There's a strong belief among long-time gamers that Square really fell off the map quality-wise at some point between 2000 and 2006, depending on who you ask.

Myself, my five favorite titles from the company would have to be the philosophical cult hit Xenogears, the addictive and well-paced Final Fantasy Tactics, the frequently-cited Final Fantasy VII, the quirky yet strong Final Fantasy IX and the oldest of the bunch, Chrono Trigger. All these games were made between 1995 and 2000, so for me these were the best years.

FFV, FFVI and Seiken Densetsu 3, all of which having debuted before anything thus far mentioned between 1992 and 1994, are big contenders for me. FFX, from 2001, is up there as well.

So for me, the company really started to decay in 2002. I enjoyed the heck out of Final Fantasy XII's (oft-maligned) battle system, exactly half of its (oft-maligned) cast and its more mature story elements, but there was a real clash in quality based on other aspects of the game's narration. (I'd go into the reasons why but I doubt anyone unaware would be interested in hearing all that stuff.) As for FFXIII, I liked it well enough to finish but I definitely can't put it in my top thirty games. And anything not FF-related really hasn't impressed me from these folks in a long while.

So yeah, 2002.

 

[TheBrew]

I wouldn't say the quality has fallen as the genre itself has stagnated. The format is good to play, but once we got into PS2 games, we have been playing the almost exact same game for 15 years. Mario has had more innovation since it began than FF.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

On that note, I also think that the rise of breathtaking graphics has really killed a lot of the quality in this particular genre. When it takes Square Enix four years to pump out a super-streamlined gig like Final Fantasy XIII because its visuals are so insanely polished there's a problem.

 

[Blamo]

I used to be a JRPG fan way back, but the sight of most of them leave me cold nowadays.

As for the Square fall off, for me it happened sometime between Final Fantasy 7 and 8's release.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

That's right where my two favorite games come from!

 

[TemporalFlux]

They lost me with Final Fantasy X in 2001. I just couldn't get into it (both the story and game mechanics); I don't think I put more than an hour into it.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

A lot of people frelling adore that game but a lot of other people commonly cite it as the beginning of the end when it comes to quality.

Certainly not sales, though. Good grief, that one sold a ton. It's not surprising, though; it opened the PS2 up for the series and looked damned stunning for its time.

 

[Angel4576]

For me the end was when Square merged with Enix.

I think everything was fine up until FFX, but then, after that, the sh1t hit the fan.

There have been plenty of JRPGs since then - Lost Odyssey, Enchanted Arms, Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remnant, Star Ocean, not to mention the continuing FF games themselves. Playing any of them leaves me cold, I just can't get into them. I'm not saying that they're all necessarily bad games, some of them appear to be quite good, but I just have little to no interest in them after a few hours.

I think I've come to terms with the fact that I'm not a fan of JRPGs per se, just a fan of Square-era RPGs. Even now, 10-15 years hence, if I ever pick up a new RPG, I always mentally compare it to FF VI, VII, VIII, IX and X, and none since have come close, so I flip the disc back out and move on.

I'm replaying VIII at the moment, and I have to say, I still absolutely adore that game. I know I go against the grain with this one, but personally, I always preferred VIII to VII, and still do.

Crisis Core next, and then a run through VII again, and then onto IX and X. That's my next 12 months' gaming sorted out!

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

For me the end was when Square merged with Enix.

That's something I've seen a lot of people state over the years... and it's something I think I agree with.

I think everything was fine up until FFX, but then, after that, the sh1t hit the fan.

Yep...

There have been plenty of JRPGs since then - Lost Odyssey, Enchanted Arms, Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remnant, Star Ocean, not to mention the continuing FF games themselves. Playing any of them leaves me cold, I just can't get into them. I'm not saying that they're all necessarily bad games, some of them appear to be quite good, but I just have little to no interest in them after a few hours.

FFXII got me going the whole way through but I lost a lot of faith in its storytelling prowess once the initial glitters of a refined, Smith-translated script and the character of Balthier wore off. When I realized the plot itself was, uh, pretty damned mediocre, I realized I wasn't a big fan of FFXII, either.

I think I've come to terms with the fact that I'm not a fan of JRPGs per se, just a fan of Square-era RPGs. Even now, 10-15 years hence, if I ever pick up a new RPG, I always mentally compare it to FF VI, VII, VIII, IX and X, and none since have come close, so I flip the disc back out and move on.

You and me both, sir or madam. That's the entire point of my thread from a personal standpoint; I've realized I'm a Square-era RPG fan and nothing more.

I'm replaying VIII at the moment, and I have to say, I still absolutely adore that game. I know I go against the grain with this one, but personally, I always preferred VIII to VII, and still do.

I've always enjoyed VIII to a point but I never cared much for its romance arc, nor its rather convoluted and not particularly well-explained final portions. Since the romance arc is, of course, the major driving force of the game I've never thought of the game as rivaling VI, VII, Tactics, Xenogears IX or X.

Crisis Core next, and then a run through VII again, and then onto IX and X. That's my next 12 months' gaming sorted out!

Not a huge fan of CC, but I don't outright hate it, either. All in all, sounds like a good year.

 

[Bishop76]

I absolutely loved X - rather, I loved the story of X - better than any of the others, hands down, from a dramatic perspective. It was a corridor run, for the most part, though. XI was abysmal, but I tried to like it and I though XII was a really good game, though not my favorite in the series. XIII was adequate, but dull and XIV was fucking atrocious. I would say XIII soured me to SE, but XIV made me angry.

Though as someone else mentioned, with games like Mass Effect, Oblivion, and Fallout dominating the scene, JRPGs are ALL seeming very very dated and in need of a drastic overhaul.

 

[Angel4576]

The only RPG that I haven't tried of late is Dragon Age - a few friends enjoyed it, but I just can't be bothered.

The only thing RPG-related that I've enjoyed recently is Mass Effect, but that's a completely different type of game and isn't an RPG in the same sense that FF is.

Re FFVIII - absolutely the reason I love it. Always preferred the Squall/Rinoa romance to that of Cloud/Aerith, Garnet/Zidane, Tidus/Yuna etc. I always see the romantic element as being a fundamental staple of the franchise. The fact that XIII didn't really have that defined story arc string to its bow was a disappointment to me. To be honest, moreso than the lack of towns/world map and the linearity of XIII.

VII - I always see VII as an experience, rather than just a game. Any replay always involves Crisis Core, VII, and then Advent Children.

 

[Angel4576]

I absolutely loved X - rather, I loved the story of X - better than any of the others, hands down, from a dramatic perspective. It was a corridor run, for the most part, though. XI was abysmal, but I tried to like it and I though XII was a really good game, though not my favorite in the series. XIII was adequate, but dull and XIV was fucking atrocious. I would say XIII soured me to SE, but XIV made me angry.

Though as someone else mentioned, with games like Mass Effect, Oblivion, and Fallout dominating the scene, JRPGs are ALL seeming very very dated and in need of a drastic overhaul.

XIV - the online one? Not for me either. Doesn't seem like they learn't much from XI afterall.

 

[Bishop76]

Yeah, XIV is the online one that is so poorly received I think they still haven't charged anyone a month's fee for it yet. They're desperately trying to fix it, but it's made a joke of SE and they pretty much fired the whole development team.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

@Bishop76:

FFX's storyline itself is incredible, I agree. I still prefer Xenogears' overall storyline (and its cast is a lot better, IMO) but since that was a Square RPG without 'Final Fantasy', 'Dragon Quest', 'Kingdom Hearts' or even 'Chrono' in its title, a lot of folks don't know about it.

The only thing RPG-related that I've enjoyed recently is Mass Effect, but that's a completely different type of game and isn't an RPG in the same sense that FF is.

Mass Effect is awesome.

Re FFVIII - absolutely the reason I love it. Always preferred the Squall/Rinoa romance to that of Cloud/Aerith, Garnet/Zidane, Tidus/Yuna etc. I always see the romantic element as being a fundamental staple of the franchise. The fact that XIII didn't really have that defined story arc string to its bow was a disappointment to me. To be honest, moreso than the lack of towns/world map and the linearity of XIII.

I'm not much of a fictional romance kinda guy, really. Sort of negates a lot of VIII's impact...

VII - I always see VII as an experience, rather than just a game. Any replay always involves Crisis Core, VII, and then Advent Children.

I can definitely see why, but I've always preferred VII's narrow, initially-defined universe over its compilation. For me, I felt like things like the Nibel Reactor scenes were a lot better before it was decided that other incidents were occurring there at almost exactly the same time, like Genesis being nearby and Sephiroth's fight with Zack being so 'epic'.

I prefer the narrower vision of that game is all, really.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Re: the online titles; I don't play MMOs so I actually don't have much to go by.

 

[Angel4576]

Personally I'd rather SE get the SP games right before they start trying to perfect a MP one.

XIII was pleasant enough, but clearly lacking against the older games of the franchise. I'm really hoping that now they've developed the 'world' of XIII they can concentrate on the story, and addressing the criticisms of and the shortfalls of the game.

 

[Angel4576]

Mass Effect is awesome.

Absolutely. ME2 even moreso IMO. ME2 was my GOTY last year. Can't wait for the final chapter.

I'm not much of a fictional romance kinda guy, really. Sort of negates a lot of VIII's impact...

Wouldn't have thought that I was to be honest, but then I realised, years after the fact that it was those aspects that I enjoyed most about the games (VII, VIII, IX and X).

I've always preferred VII's narrow, initially-defined universe over its compilation. For me, I felt like things like the Nibel Reactor scenes were a lot better before it was decided that other incidents were occurring there at almost exactly the same time, like Genesis being nearby and Sephiroth's fight with Zack being so 'epic'.

I prefer the narrower vision of that game is all, really.

Yeah, I can appreciate that. For me, CC and AC both add context to the story, and add further layers onto an already rich tale. I value the argument that says that it's that rich that it doesn't need more layers, but I thought that they actuIlly did it quite well, and the CGI on AC, especially on BR, is incredible.

 

[Bishop76]

I actually found myself a bit bored with Xenogears. I admit I haven't played it since it came out in 97 or 98 or whatever, but I don't think I ever finished it just because I stopped caring. I actually liked the Xenosaga games better.

 

[Bishop76]

As meh as I found XIII to be, I'll probably still pick up XIII-2

 

[Angel4576]

As meh as I found XIII to be, I'll probably still pick up XIII-2

Yep, but then, I'll also be picking up Type-0 and Versus as well!