News Jo Martin reflects on her time as a Black, middle-aged, female Doctor

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I don’t mind that so much; I think it was a shame that Tennant’s Doctor didn’t show signs of having lived a longer incarnation. Of course, I suppose his having “died” young makes his “I don’t want to go” all the more poignant.

Smith not regenerating as an old man is annoying, but understandable as Moffat probably felt he wanted Smith to go out as a young man.

Frustratingly, RTD could have allowed a long period of time to have Tennant travel on his own before the End of the TIme, but anyway.

 

[The Wormhole]

They wouldn't even let RTD age Tennant up a bit would they?

Technically, he could have aged Tennant, as long as Tennant was back to looking his "normal self" for the regeneration scene, as per BBC request. When RTD learned that, he just didn't see the point in having an aged Tennant if they'd just have to have young Tennant for the regeneration scene anyway.

And yes, that's exactly why we got Smith reverting to being young for his regeneration scene.

 

[Qonundrum]

William Hartnell, Patrick Troughton, Jon Pertwee and Peter Capaldi are fairly old-looking gentlemen who led the show.

Save for Davison, prior to 2005 all Doctor actors were 40 or older. Millennials seem to believe that the Doctor can't look or be older than 35 or something, which is weird. Maybe that's scaring Chibnall off? He's pretty much tried to cut'n'paste the feel of Smith and Tennant for Whitaker because fans were never getting enough of those eras, but then actually be bold and daring with the more original and engaging Martin - something he should have done from the outset but nobody can plan ingenious ideas on cue.

So the comparison would be apt, if the show had never had an elderly-looking person ever before. Martin's casting as the first female black Doctor was royally wasted in a stunt casting, in a part he admited was never going to be the Doctor until late in the writing process anyway.

Hopefully Chibnall is throwing out fake messages to keep elements of surprise in play. A spinoff series or having TTC be semi-truth and it's revealed Ruth is a future incarnation, or 6B...

Beyond the inherent argument of mine being that the Timeless Children implication being of no importance to me personally (and I say importance and not something a lot less polite), I also argued that the Martin Doctor being a 2.5 Doctor is inherently more interesting, since its not intent on reversing simple facts from the show's history, like how the Doctor's TARDIS wasn't stuck in the Police Box form until he was the First Doctor, and so forth. That I ignore the, er, revelations of that finale episode is not an argument to call me out on, since I'm aware of it enough but also intent with it not becoming the focal point of another pointless discussion of canon.

Chibnall's arc and story may not be complete yet. Then again, he underplayed everything with the holiday special while keeping it a direct continuation. Maybe he really doesn't know what he's doing, to the point it all makes Moffat's mistakes comparatively coherent. It's a wait'n'see...

...but to throw out a Doctor as stunt casting is atrocious. Especially given the strength of the Fugitive Doctor alone. Heck, having her be the next Doctor but as a ruse would have been better, plus that would fix a giant plot hole in the Judoon story where the future incarnation saves the past incarnation - something any fan of the show would have recognized in 'The Two Doctors" and while nobody is ever on the same level as Holmes, it's just proof that even Holmes had an off-day and he had to do a hasty rewrite because they had to change filming locations and a lot of tangential dialogue as a result.

That and Jo's outfit was easily NuWHO's best and most original outfit for a Doctor. Chibnall's responsible for what worked well as well as the clunky stuff.

I would not be for it, for two reasons. Which I have explained, among them being not a fan of Martin being a pre-Hartnell Doctor. At all. But I think I explained myself there. Second, a pre-Doctor would not fit with the inherent going-forward agenda that characterizes the show. And lastly, if there's any unseen Doctor adventures the BBC could follow, I'd rather those were Paul McGann's, quite frankly.

Season 6B may be corny, but it fits the whole of the show a heck of a lot better, and still allows a lot of originality and expanded lore. As well as legitimizing it that much more. Either way, Whitaker's era isn't done with yet and anything could happen. Or what's been shown is simply that. I hope not because, again, Moffat's multi-season arcs were a mess but that would be nothing if Chibnall doesn't tidy things up. Never mind the wasted opportunity of the Fugitive Doctor, who - putting aside Timeless Children's claims - was an amazing breath of fresh air in "Fugitive" along with a great use of the Judoon.

Also, the idea of Chibnall staying on the show depresses me as a fan. But what depresses me more is, after being fairly civil in my discourse that there's an attempt (?) to label me within a group of "some people" that basically whine and bitch about Who without arguing in civil manner. I'm not here to insult Chibnall's Who, but at the same time "some people" should also learn to accept that people like myself simply don't like his (lets say controversial) stance and handling of the show, and accept that that won't change at least anytime soon. Being superior about it helps no one, especially when the end result is being not so.

 

[Qonundrum]

I'd actually really like seeing her back, as long as its after Chibnall fucks off. She was the only decent thing he introduced, and she's easy enough to retcon into the timeline even ignoring the stupid "timeless child" shit (I like thinking about her as being after the 2nd Doctor but before the 3rd doctor, since we never saw the 2nd Doctor regenerate and the Season 6B theory had him working for the timelords, kind of like what she was doing).

Unfortunately, very few characters seem to survive a showrunner change (Jack being the only notable one so far), and while I'm sure that Jo martin will eventually have a decent side gig working for Big Finish, I don't think she'll be coming back once a competent person is in charge of the show.

Some of that is a tad harsh with the swears, but a lot of people won't blame you because Chibnall's era has been so divisive and to the point people have been and would be harsh. Perhaps surprisingly, but a lot of ideas were let down by clunky dialogue. Heck, series 12's finale is a cliffhanger, on a story with a character known for making huge lies and twists for the sole sake of humiliating the Doctor, so we honestly don't know how all this gets played out. If it is as what's shown, that'd be far, far worse than even the cliche of "Master lied by using the Matrix". And the TTC 'revelations' don't need to be the new canon to still make the Fugitive Doctor work. Again, 6B is one easy way but other possibilities can and do exist, even Chib's. Heck, "Fugitive of the Judoon" is one of his top-3 penned stories with ease. But how he moves forward to finish this arc seems more important than where it's at now. All of this seems not unlike season 21 where they ended it on a controversial story and people got wound up back then too... but unlike season 22's more tepid changes, series 13 could have some resolute and absolute goals in mind.

Jack was a generic figure in series 12. Anybody would have been that role.

 

[Starkers]

Save for Davison, prior to 2005 all Doctor actors were 40 or older. Millennials seem to believe that the Doctor can't look or be older than 35 or something, which is weird.

Well actually of the nu Who Doctors, two of them were over 40 (Eccleston was older than either Baker) and if you include John Hurt three of them were over 40. Whilst all the classic Doctors were 40+ apart from Davison, McGann was 36 (never sure if he counts as a classic Doctor, a modern Doctor, or a category all on his own. Jo Martin is a bit of a curveball. Nobody seems to know how old she is, although in the article she describes herself as middle aged which I'd assume meant over 40, though obviously she might have been a shade under 40 when she actually appeared. So taking the War Doc and the fugitive Doc into account the majority of modern Doctors have been over 40!

Heck, "Fugitive of the Judoon" is one of his top-3 penned stories with ease.

That and Jo's outfit was easily NuWHO's best and most original outfit for a Doctor. Chibnall's responsible for what worked well as well as the clunky stuff.

Fugitive of the Judoon was written with Vinay Patel. I don't think there's any information of whether this was a true collaboration or whether Chibnall just did enough work on Patel's script to justify a credit? (or vice versa though that would seem the less likely option I'd imagine).

I love Jo's outfit. Utterly Doctorish whilst being very different. A Victorian/Edwardian three piece suit, but the coloured undershirt takes its inspiration from Africa (Kente cloth apparently). Just a delightful contrast and it works perfectly.

I can't help feeling that Jo's outfit was put together way quicker than Jodie's trendy art teacher look, yet works so much better!

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I don't know if Jo Martin's outfit is the best of all NuWho... I'm rather partial to the leather jacket of Nine's, Ten's trenchcoat and blue suit, Smith's green coat in season 6 and Capaldi's hoodie appearance. But its up there. Its very distinctive and she almost looks like a Starfleet captain to me, oddly. Which is cool, of course.

 

[The Wormhole]

Fugitive of the Judoon was written with Vinay Patel. I don't think there's any information of whether this was a true collaboration or whether Chibnall just did enough work on Patel's script to justify a credit?

IIRC, the basic story outline about the Judoon tracking a fugitive hiding on Earth did come entirely from Vinay Patel, with Chibnall being the one who decided said Fugitive would in fact be a previously unknown former Doctor.

I don't know if Jo Martin's outfit is the best of all NuWho... I'm rather partial to the leather jacket of Nine's, Ten's trenchcoat and blue suit, Smith's green coat in season 6 and Capaldi's hoodie appearance. But its up there. Its very distinctive and she almost looks like a Starfleet captain to me, oddly. Which is cool, of course.

Smith's green coat with Stetson was an excellent look and it always disappointed me they never brought it back after season 6.

 

[Qonundrum]

Well actually of the nu Who Doctors, two of them were over 40 (Eccleston was older than either Baker) and if you include John Hurt three of them were over 40.

True. Adding Hurt helps create a balance, I suppose. I still don't understand the notion of why only young people can find young people to be hero-types, that seems to be a strange mindset to have. Or what's so different in 2020 versus 2005 or 1990 that now dictates such myopia, since in the end it's all down to the scripting and acting and most of us as kids or teens probably were not eschewing anyone over 40 just because of that.

Whilst all the classic Doctors were 40+ apart from Davison, McGann was 36 (never sure if he counts as a classic Doctor, a modern Doctor, or a category all on his own. Jo Martin is a bit of a curveball. Nobody seems to know how old she is, although in the article she describes herself as middle aged which I'd assume meant over 40, though obviously she might have been a shade under 40 when she actually appeared. So taking the War Doc and the fugitive Doc into account the majority of modern Doctors have been over 40!

Most people lump in the 1996 television movie with Classic WHO. Not sure why as it feels more like NuWHO.

Middle-age is generally deemed "mid 40-something"? All I know is, Jo has as much gravitas and screen presence for the role as Smith had, and both played different takes on the same role...

Fugitive of the Judoon was written with Vinay Patel. I don't think there's any information of whether this was a true collaboration or whether Chibnall just did enough work on Patel's script to justify a credit? (or vice versa though that would seem the less likely option I'd imagine).

It would be fun to know where Chib's additions or changes were made; they're done better in this story than in "Rosa" where it's all but obvious that Chib's input revolved around Krasko and it's clunky. Patel is a great fit for the show as both his stories were pretty good or great. The fact he avoided the use of the psychic paper only made "Demons" even more enjoyable and felt more like Classic Who (in good ways). I wonder how he'd fare under a different showrunner.

I love Jo's outfit. Utterly Doctorish whilst being very different. A Victorian/Edwardian three piece suit, but the coloured undershirt takes its inspiration from Africa (Kente cloth apparently). Just a delightful contrast and it works perfectly.

It's NuWHO's most original outfit, save for 13's, but more effective. I didn't see all the hues until a photo I saw recently. I dfislike how modern media tries to make a muted teal/orange blah palette and all this time she had a far livelier outfit. It is as colorful as it is sharp, and "perfectly" is a perfect term to use. Didn't know about Kente cloth eithert and just looked it up - there's a lot of lovely patterns and color blends. Marvelous stuff!

I can't help feeling that Jo's outfit was put together way quicker than Jodie's trendy art teacher look, yet works so much better!

No clue how long it took, but it definitely is much better! Jodie's grew on me, but Jo's is definitely something new that worked from the get-go.

 

[publiusr]

Some of that is a tad harsh

I don’t dislike Chib’s take...he could have had the Master as the Doctor’s other incarnations...but your avatar—7–is Q like and the most Cosmic of the Doctors....the one who knew everything. I wish Death in the Family had been live action. Heady stuff