Jennifer Lien in trouble again?

[Lynx]

I agree with everything you said except the part of them trying to ruin the character with her return. I think they just thought it would be cool to be all badass and then return to season 1. It was just badly written and thus it couldn't substain the gimmick. A problem the show often had. Jason

I'm gonna be honest here, although I know that some people might disagree with me here.

I think that they delibeately ruined the character to show "the finger" to those fans who wanted Kes back.

There was a letter campaign going at the time (not started by me, I must point out) to have Kes re-instated on Voyager. I've been told that this campaign had some impact or at least was noticed by those in charge of the show.

They had two choices: 1. Re-instate the character in the show as she was in the first three seasons.
2. Completly ignore the campaign.

They did choose option 3 which was tho insult the Kes fans, particularily those who started the campaign. Sort of: "You wanted your little favorite back? Now eat this, you scumbags and never question our actions again because it's our show and you should only sit still, say yes and accept everything we do!"

What I've been told, those in charge originally planned to kill of Kes in the episode but jennifer Lien persuaded them to change the end of the story.

OK, I might be wrong but if it was bad writing as you state in your post , then it was incredibly bad writing. I mean, Kes comes back as a lunatic, for no reason at all and try to kill her best friensd. Honestly, not even Seska would have done that and Kes is the last one to harm her friends, the people who actually saved her in the first place. Then at the end she leaves as a pathetic old wreck who is so stupid that she believe she can travel all the way back to Ocampa on her own. So incredibly unrealistis!

Did they really believe that the fans of Kes should like the episode? Then they are more stupid than I ever thought would be possible. And I don't consider Berman and Braga stupid, but very shrewd guys. They knew what they were doing.

That episode is the most insulting episode ever made in the history of TV shows. It should be erased from all future DVD:s and Blue-Ray discs.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Jennifer has a writing credit for Fury.

Whatever drenn they tried to sell her on, this is what that turd looked like after she polished it.

Seriously, the day was saved by a dated voice mail that Kes forgot making.

 

[Lynx]

Jennifer has a writing credit for Fury.

Whatever drenn they tried to sell her on, this is what that turd looked like after she polished it.

Seriously, the day was saved by a dated voice mail that Kes forgot making.

The writing credit for the s**t episode is for the change of the ending of the episode. Jennifer persuaded them to not kill of kes and got a writing credit for that.

 

[Prax]

There's an interview with Lien where she explains how she contributed to the episode, and states she requested numerous changes to the story until she was happy with the final script.

What is so bad about Fury, anyway? Is it just the fact that Kes forgot things and became bitter? Is there a problem with the actual story and pacing, etc? Is it the time travel element? What is the major issue with it?

 

[Finn]

You are asking for a long essay from Lynx, eh?

 

[Jayson1]

There's an interview with Lien where she explains how she contributed to the episode, and states she requested numerous changes to the story until she was happy with the final script.

What is so bad about Fury, anyway? Is it just the fact that Kes forgot things and became bitter? Is there a problem with the actual story and pacing, etc? Is it the time travel element? What is the major issue with it?

For me it kind of works because it was fun seeing season 1 again and going all bad is neat idea. It fails to give her any motivations for actions. Plus the ending were she goes home old and alone is depression and she didn't even really get bond with the crew again. Jason

 

[Lynx]

You are asking for a long essay from Lynx, eh?

Of course he does!

The whole world loves my long and detailed essays and eagerly awaits more of them. So why in the world would I make all my fans dissapointed with not coming up with them?

 

[Lynx]

There's an interview with Lien where she explains how she contributed to the episode, and states she requested numerous changes to the story until she was happy with the final script.

What is so bad about Fury, anyway? Is it just the fact that Kes forgot things and became bitter? Is there a problem with the actual story and pacing, etc? Is it the time travel element? What is the major issue with it?

A honest question which requires a honest answer.

"What's so bad with the episode"? Well, as I see it everything is bad withh the episode but most of all that they brought "Kes" back as a soulless, crazy monster who tried to kill her friends on the ship. Now why shoud she do that? They had saved her once and she was very grateful for that so why behave the way she did now. It doesn't make sense.

Then the plan was to kill her off but why? They had already deleted the character and dumped the actress and spent two years of trying to make everyone forget that she ever existed. So why bring her back as a monster unless they deliberately did it to insult the fans of the character, those fans who wanted her back.

At the end, she's allowed to leave as a pathetic old wreck who have crazy fantasies about traveling the whole way back to Ocampa in a shuttle, past the Hirogen, the Voth, the Species 8472, the Vidiiians, the Kazon and all the hostile species who the Voyager crew had problems with.
Ridiculous!

The episode should never have been made. It did no good at all and it had no impact on the Voyager story as such. It was only insulting.

 

[Greg Cox]

I wouldn't take it personally. One can quibble with the execution if one likes, but I doubt anybody set out to deliberately "show the finger" to Kes fans. Professional writers and producers don't tend to think that way. They've got other things on their minds than indulging with petty spats with fans.

At the time, it probably just seemed like a dramatic twist. Nobody deliberately sets out to make a bad episode.

 

[marlboro]

Hanlon's razor:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."


On the other hand, human nature being what it is, I can easily believe an artist or writer could insert a big "F you!" into their work to stick it to their fans. People can be very petty.


Either way, not a good episode.

Edited to add: there is a short story in Strange New Worlds 5 called "Restoration" that gives Kes a much better sendoff, imo.

 

[mos6507]

I can easily believe an artist or writer could insert a big "F you!" into their work to stick it to their fans. People can be very petty.

Yep. That definitely happens.

 

[Lynx]

I wouldn't take it personally. One can quibble with the execution if one likes, but I doubt anybody set out to deliberately "show the finger" to Kes fans. Professional writers and producers don't tend to think that way. They've got other things on their minds than indulging with petty spats with fans.

At the time, it probably just seemed like a dramatic twist. Nobody deliberately sets out to make a bad episode.

Honestly, I see no other reason for them to come up with such a horrible and insulting story. Especially since they spent two and a half season to make people forget that Kes ever existed.

 

[Lynx]

Hanlon's razor:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."


On the other hand, human nature being what it is, I can easily believe an artist or writer could insert a big "F you!" into their work to stick it to their fans. People can be very petty.


Either way, not a good episode.

Edited to add: there is a short story in Strange New Worlds 5 called "Restoration" that gives Kes a much better sendoff, imo.

What Kes needs is a restoration, not a sendoff.

I haven't read "Restoration" and I doubt it will be better in restoring Kes than my own "Coming Home" which is available on the Kes Website!

 

[Lynx]

Yep. That definitely happens.

Please enlighten me about this.

 

[Greg Cox]

Please enlighten me about this.

He's making a snarky dig at THE LAST JEDI and its director.

 

[Prax]

It was..most original...

 

[XCV330]

Honestly, I see no other reason for them to come up with such a horrible and insulting story. Especially since they spent two and a half season to make people forget that Kes ever existed.

It only takes maybe two episodes tops to forget Neelix's badly written 2 year old lover.

 

[unimatrix7]

Honestly, I see no other reason for them to come up with such a horrible and insulting story. Especially since they spent two and a half season to make people forget that Kes ever existed.

I thought Fury was a cute episode. It was nice to see Lien back, and the premise of the show worked for me - that this innocent got lost and scared when she fled the coop and found her way back, angry and vengeful only to be reminded by her friends of who she was and still is. The execution left a fair bit to be desired, but I saw nothing malicious in its production. Quite the opposite.

And you can't accuse me of hating Kes. I named my cat Kes. She was my little girl and she only died last year

I wish Jennifer well with her mental health issues. It's a bitch of a thing to deal with.

 

[HugeLobes]

I think that they delibeately ruined the character to show "the finger" to those fans who wanted Kes back.

 

[Lynx]

There were more than dozens who wanted Kes back. The letter campaign for re-instating Kes got a lot of response.