Jayru (JSnaith's) 3D Trek

[JSnaith]

Thank you for the source. I see, you were referring to a deleted scene and unused graphics for the dialogue and graphics. Well, for me, that info only confirms that these "Connies" were deleted and not used and what is actually seen in the movie is very much up for interpretation. YMMV

If they are not Constitutions - what are they?

 

[JSnaith]

Updates:

Lots more detail to build in, but the saucer is almost complete.

Comments welcome, more later.

 

[blssdwlf]

If they are not Constitutions - what are they?

The one where we see the top of the nacelle could be a single nacelle design (or a 2 nacelle with the nacelles places top and bottom instead of left-right) and the one visible from inside the travel pod could be a ship that just happens to use similar nacelle and pylon but have a different hull shape.

Plenty of room for imagination

Edit: That nacelle / pylon could belong to your variant.

 

[JSnaith]

Update: rebuilt the lower saucer from scratch, happier with it now. Reg markings and a few more details to come -

The one where we see the top of the nacelle could be a single nacelle design (or a 2 nacelle with the nacelles places top and bottom instead of left-right) and the one visible from inside the travel pod could be a ship that just happens to use similar nacelle and pylon but have a different hull shape.

Plenty of room for imagination

Edit: That nacelle / pylon could belong to your variant.

I can accept the argument that from TMP onwards we only ever see three Refit Constitution Class starships (Enterprise, Enterprise-A, unnamed Wolf359 ship) and that most were either retired, mothballed, or so rare that sightings of them were celebrated. But I think that goes against the grain. We know several of these ships existed. If I accept the fact that they could only have reg numbers beginning with NCC-17XX (and TOS and remastered TOS have to be ignored for that fact) then we know a total of 45 were built (USS New Jersey NCC-1745, Picard "The Bounty").

Either way, it proves my point that not enough was seen of these ships to know if a "mark II" or "mark IV" version of the refit was ever done and built. I dislike the idea that once built, the design is forever set in stone and unchangeable. But I can be flexible and accept that idea too, in which case I am not building a Refit Constitution but something else. Lots to think on.

More tomorrow.

 

[JSnaith]

But here is the reason that I am not going to accept that previous arguments:

1/ Starship variations are canon. The Excelsior, Galaxy, Miranda classes were all shown to have variations in their hull layouts and designs. If the Enterprise-B is accepted to be an Excelsior Class by peeps on this site, it proves a point. DS9 introduced us to a variation in the Galaxy Class (extra phaser emitters on the nacelles) and TNG and DS9 introduced variations on the Miranda - some without a rollbar, some with the rollbar but the aft part of it was another impulse engine. (I'm not talking about the Soyez and other classes either, but actual variations on the Miranda).

2/ It's not logical to state that refit Connie was the end of that class's design life and that no further changes were ever seen. between TMP and TUC the shooting model underwent changes, namely different paint jobs, but that resulted in hull detail changes. We also saw five different bridge designs across those films
indicating that internal changes were happening as well. The Enterprise and Enterprise-A were not static designs but evolved over time.

3/ If we accept Gene's intent that the Yorktown became the Enterprise-A, why can't we accept the filmmakers' intent that there were other Constitutions in Spacedock? Cherry picking is nice, but either all cherries are equal and should all be picked, or they should be left alone, lol.

4/ I accept that I am not able to match 100% the refit Enterprise(-A), but I will get as close as I can. This will be/is a Constitution Class refit.

Anyway, that's my thought process at the moment, updates in a bit.

 

[JSnaith]

Saucer is done and for the moment, locked -

Moving on the dorsal connector, more later

 

[JSnaith]

Update -

Lot of small detail to be built into the "neck" before I lock it down. The Torpedo Frame is going to be fun (not).

Yep, sorted out the aft registry tag on the saucer for those of you with sharp eyes. Rebuilt those pannels. Yep, still building detail in and using basic textures. But then I have a beast of a PC to allow me to do that, lol

More later.

 

[JSnaith]

I don't think I am going to get any more time on this today, so I think this is it until next weekend -

Neck and torp bay is done and locked -

Keep well and safe all of you, and speak in a week!

 

[publiusr]

It has long been postulated that the Enterprise-A in TVH was the quickly-renamed USS Yorktown that suffered downtime from the Whale Probe and moved around using a "makeshift solar sail".

I thought that was a Reliant/Miranda type ship (Saratoga)—which I thought was a Connie.

I really like your take on this, J
Very solid.

The fantail even drops a tad…my favorite part is that you gave a good bevel edge to the refit saucer.

 

[blssdwlf]

But here is the reason that I am not going to accept that previous arguments:

1/ Starship variations are canon. The Excelsior, Galaxy, Miranda classes were all shown to have variations in their hull layouts and designs. If the Enterprise-B is accepted to be an Excelsior Class by peeps on this site, it proves a point. DS9 introduced us to a variation in the Galaxy Class (extra phaser emitters on the nacelles) and TNG and DS9 introduced variations on the Miranda - some without a rollbar, some with the rollbar but the aft part of it was another impulse engine. (I'm not talking about the Soyez and other classes either, but actual variations on the Miranda).

What do you think the previous arguments were?

If you were shown only the top of the USS Curry (the saucer) you might think she was an Excelsior when she isn't. Or the USS Yeager's primary hull thinking she's an Intrepid but also not. Or a close-up of the USS Curry's nacelle and warp pylon with perspective obscuring the engineering hull thinking she's a Miranda but again, not a Miranda. Just seeing nacelles and a warp pylon doesn't lock in the class. To be certain you would need to see the whole ship or a large enough portion to rule out other designs.

2/ It's not logical to state that refit Connie was the end of that class's design life and that no further changes were ever seen. between TMP and TUC the shooting model underwent changes, namely different paint jobs, but that resulted in hull detail changes. We also saw five different bridge designs across those films
indicating that internal changes were happening as well. The Enterprise and Enterprise-A were not static designs but evolved over time.

I don't believe anyone here has stated that the refit Connie was at the end of the class' design life and no further changes were ever seen.

3/ If we accept Gene's intent that the Yorktown became the Enterprise-A, why can't we accept the filmmakers' intent that there were other Constitutions in Spacedock? Cherry picking is nice, but either all cherries are equal and should all be picked, or they should be left alone, lol.

1. We can also say that the filmmakers' intent was that they decided to not use the bts graphics you point to so there would be no other Constitutions in Spacedock competing with the hero ship in the movie.
2. We are always cherry picking based on our own biases which is how we can come to different conclusions.

4/ I accept that I am not able to match 100% the refit Enterprise(-A), but I will get as close as I can. This will be/is a Constitution Class refit.

And that is wonderful to state. She's your artwork and we're here rooting for you. But just a personal observation: You might not get much specific feedback on the ship because we don't know what you are trying to match and what you are changing or "getting close" with. I wouldn't go looking for parts of your ship that appear inaccurate or looks unusual when I know you have stated that certain parts aren't going to be 100% because you've already stated as such. *Also importantly I am NOT advocating for you to tell us if it would interfere with your workflow.

Anyway, that's my thought process at the moment, updates in a bit.

They look wonderful

 

[JSnaith]

Ahh, yes... when I use the word argument I use it to mean: a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory - not: handbags at dawn.

I tend to do this, use older definitions of words. I shall be mindful. It is an autism thing, but unlike Musk I shall own my mistake and say: sorry for the confusion.

As to everything else;

I am trying to match as close as I can to the Refit Connie, but within the limits of my current skill set. I'm dreading working on the interface of the pylons and the secondary hull, I'm not convinced I can make such a smooth transition. But I will try, and I may rebuild it a few times before I accept that's the best I can do. Hence the idea that this is not a Mark I Refit Connie, but likely a Mark II, or Mark III - that gives me an out for inaccuracies that are inevitable.

Film-makers intent aside, I like the idea of there being other Refit Connies in Spacedock. Yes, the Enterprise(-A) is the hero ship, but she was not alone in that universe. If she was alone, and the others had been retired or sold off, then why the heck would Starfleet assign Kirk & Co to another one, rather than a newer Class of ship? Makes no sense. Even if the Ent-A was the renamed Yorktown she wasn't a new ship but one that was almost 40 years old, which was the reason for mothballing the original Enterprise. Lots to think on there.

Personal thoughts aside, it doesn't matter what conclusions we come to, because what's on the screen is - well, what's on the screen. Gene's Golden Rule was that what's on screen is canon. Although, yes he's dead and Trek has moved on. Maybe it's time to revise that rule? There were so many on-screen things in TUC that made me scream at the screen because they were so wrong... Valris's uniform, rank - don't get me started, would completely derail this thread, lol. I have to constantly remind myself it's fiction, just shut up and enjoy it.

Anyways, this is for me until next weekend. Didn't want to leave the thread hanging with a misunderstanding caused on my part. LLAP

 

[blssdwlf]

It's all good. Take care and I hope everything goes well for you this week.

 

[JSnaith]

Things didn't go to plan yesterday. They couldn't get the probe in either leg to have a look at what is going on with my heart, so they have sent me home this morning - so they can have a think about the best way forward. Not surprised, as it's happened before. But hohum, new consultant and new team will give them a go. New Hospital is only an hour away, unlike before when it was a 4-hour journey just to get to London, so I will be going back to have a chat with them this week.

So back to the coal-face, take my mind of things. Thank you all :-)

More later.

 

[knightgrace]

There is nothing wrong with using proper word definitions. All words have exact meanings, except to lawyers, politicians...

So as to convey properly what is being attempted.

 

[blssdwlf]

Things didn't go to plan yesterday. They couldn't get the probe in either leg to have a look at what is going on with my heart, so they have sent me home this morning - so they can have a think about the best way forward. Not surprised, as it's happened before. But hohum, new consultant and new team will give them a go. New Hospital is only an hour away, unlike before when it was a 4-hour journey just to get to London, so I will be going back to have a chat with them this week.

So back to the coal-face, take my mind of things. Thank you all :-)

More later.

That is a bummer. Hope you have a better outcome with your new team.

 

[JSnaith]

That is a bummer. Hope you have a better outcome with your new team.

It was the new team that had the issue, but going to stick with them as "fresh eyes" on the problem may reveal different strategies to deal with things. One of the outcomes is that they did notice a problem with the valve I had replaced in 2009 - going to need re-replacing in the next year. Keyhole surgery this time, not full open heart like always, so the outcome would be better. But we shall see.

Anyway, devoted the last three and half/four hours to the coal-face;

I think the interface between the pylons and hull works - stills needs a bit more smoothing out, but I'm sort of happy with it. Still lots to build in, thrusters, lights, rooms-behind-windows, the arboretum and the shuttle bay details.

Beginning to enjoy working on it again.

More tomorrow.

 

[JSnaith]

Going to play with the textures today, see if I can get the pearlescent shine from TMP (and dropped from TWOK onwards). Personal choice, but I think it's worth doing.

Also have a ton of things left to do on the build-in still, plus I want to work on the pylons. They need re-texturning and I need to sort the colour scheme out as well.

Rooms behind the windows - I can use my TMP style lightbox which I've used for the rest of the ship, but the Arboretum will be a custom set. Considering doing a custom set of the officer's lounge as well. You can get in close and get some good detail renders of the ship, haven't done that yet - but it matches what I've done in the past.

Right... some thoughts on the back history on the USS Constellation NCC-1017-A:

Feel free to throw some ideas into the mix, as I have nothing set in stone. My mind suggests that this is not a refit, but a fully built new ship that was christened Constellation in honour of Matt Decker's former command. She's a Mark II, or Mark III, version of the Constitution II design - which allows some wiggle room with the differences that exist between this build and the Enterprise refit. I see her launching in the late 2270's, so post TMP and pre TWOK.

In terms of shuttles, I have two different ones that would work with this ship;
The TMP style shuttle.
The TFF style shuttle.

I could use both, I think I'll build in a hanger bay and see what fits. More TMP in style or TFF style? Or a combination of both styles? Comments and thoughts on this are welcome.

 

[JSnaith]

Updates - pylons redone and a lot better than before. The "metal" shine textures have been updated to give the effect I am after -

Back to building in details now.

Comments welcome, more maybe later, but most certainly tomorrow.

 

[137th Gebirg]

You’ve captured the pearlescent paint job pretty effectively here.

 

[JSnaith]

You’ve captured the pearlescent paint job pretty effectively here.

Thank you - it's been "fun" trying to hit the effect, lol.

Updates - more detail built in. Hanger bay and hatch are taking shape -

More later.