Thank you :-)Great work! Looking awesome.
Jayru (JSnaith's) 3D Trek
- Thread starter JSnaith
- Start date
In the TMP era, it seems that there might be a greater emphasis on all things military.
Take the TMP Vulcan shuttle for instance. I don't think that was a Vulcan design.
The shuttle we see in Star Trek V---were I to hazard a guess---is what most shuttles are. They probably use field effect to slow from orbit. But that could give your position away--right?
Spock's craft is a type of dropship. No windows...big wedge. In face, the NASA OTV concepts could even feel re-entry heating on the upper surface:
https://up-ship.com/blog/?p=51007
So while Probert probably felt such a spartan wedge shape would appeal to Vulcans in that it would have on powered entires---maybe section 31 either had them build this as a covert insertion device: Warp sled detaches, the slab comes in and lands...no lights, no windows...a Feddie Blackhawk.
But this concept can be scaled up...
Back on topic:
The Exclesior undercut is so deep---and with the Ingram being quoted as a "Space Control Ship"---the following retcon can be had. The undercut is necessary for Transwarp--or high warp at least. Just like the Glomar Explorer was a "mining" ship.
But Excelsior's "Moon Pool" undercut had another reason---a place for a real dropship
Your ship is the true Excelsior---it is what Styles chased Kirk with and what Sulu commanded---but was a test craft for larger designs...like Ingram and the Lakota---those were behemoths that would not have been able to enter Spacedock...but hook up alongside like Ent-D was supposed to have done, as per Probert. But that comes later.
Your ship here could not go to Trans-warp (as it turns out--it led to the new Ent-D scale) but with a pod---could be about even with Reliant and Enterprise speedwise with a pod---that I envision looking like the M2-F2 lifting body:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_M2-F2
It would be long and thin---no fatter than Excelsior's secondary hull---maybe a bit slimmer---making the combined hulls a bit like Grissom's secondary hull.
Your Excelsior has a nice shuttlebay---which I could see connecting to a wide bay in the tail of the lifting body.
The Excelsior's M2-F2 drop ship would have a ball turret like cockpit in the nose, so it could rotate and then land on its flat "upper surface---like M2-F2 did here---only by accident:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North...rash_on_Rogers_Dry_Lake_-_GPN-2000-000089.jpg
This is how I see Operation Retrieve going:
Reliant type craft were designed with a nacelles down anhedral that allowed them to look like D-7s in terms or warp signatures---like Ozawa drawing Halsey off-sides they create a diversion, and Heavy Cruisers led by Styles (once Sulu was bumped off by Section 31) come screaming in and put this dropship down and it's a firefight...with Marines come streaming out of the ramp in the back...
The ball turret even detaches as an ED-209 type mech that lays down heavy suppressing fire as Kirk is....well....retrieved.
The reason this makes sense to me is that---in the same way the Surak's warp sled can drop off a coil-less shuttle....I figure Excelsior could just drop this lower secondary hull off at warp and let in come in like the old WWII gliders...no warp signatures to give itself away. As Klingon ships pursue Excelsior herself...they miss the powerless hull used to rescue Kirk. It has a shuttle-bay in its tail---and the hull left behind to auto destruct. That would match your lower shuttlebay cut-out perfectly---the bay of one hull lines up with the bay of the other.
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I get what you are trying to say.
I think… The undercut on these Excelsior type ships is deep because of the size of the nacelles. It acts as some sort of natural “flow guide” for the warp field. The longer the nacelles the bigger the undercut(?). It explains why it’s not so pronounced on the Constitution Class and why it’s none-existing on the Oberth. How ships like the Miranda work is beyond me, but I am going to guess that’s why the nacelles are below the main hull, rather than above. It could also be that the Miranda’s are just not as fast as the Constitution, and the lack of undercut is why.
Of course, technology improves and changes in the Trek universe – we’ve seen that as the show has evolved over the course of time.
But given I’ve been playing in the late 23rd century with most of these ships (the Windrunner is of course a 24th century ship) I have to limit my thoughts as to what was achievable in that time.
The USS Galadin is an Excelsior Class starship. Yes, I made two major changes to the design: I changed the cargo hold on the undercut, and I replaced the bridge module with one that’s big enough for a bridge to be to scale with the ship. In all other respects, she is an Excelsior. The Odysseus and the Horizon are based on the same idea but separate classes, in the same way we have the Belknap and other classes based off the Constitution.
So that brings me back to your question – do I think if you could put a mission pod in the undercut?
Short answer: no.
Now, I want to qualify that by stating that it’s my opinion only, and you are free to make your own ;-)
I think if you put something in that area that interferes with the warp field flow, the ship will tear apart. I have… Nothing to base that off, other than the fact we don’t see it, and if we don’t see it then there’s a reason. I know aridas and Todd have had a lot to say on the matter in the past, and I lean to their wider knowledge.
But as I say, this is just my opinion. You are entirely free to your own and to disagree with me. Respect for that.
I think… The undercut on these Excelsior type ships is deep because of the size of the nacelles. It acts as some sort of natural “flow guide” for the warp field. The longer the nacelles the bigger the undercut(?). It explains why it’s not so pronounced on the Constitution Class and why it’s none-existing on the Oberth. How ships like the Miranda work is beyond me, but I am going to guess that’s why the nacelles are below the main hull, rather than above. It could also be that the Miranda’s are just not as fast as the Constitution, and the lack of undercut is why.
Of course, technology improves and changes in the Trek universe – we’ve seen that as the show has evolved over the course of time.
But given I’ve been playing in the late 23rd century with most of these ships (the Windrunner is of course a 24th century ship) I have to limit my thoughts as to what was achievable in that time.
The USS Galadin is an Excelsior Class starship. Yes, I made two major changes to the design: I changed the cargo hold on the undercut, and I replaced the bridge module with one that’s big enough for a bridge to be to scale with the ship. In all other respects, she is an Excelsior. The Odysseus and the Horizon are based on the same idea but separate classes, in the same way we have the Belknap and other classes based off the Constitution.
So that brings me back to your question – do I think if you could put a mission pod in the undercut?
Short answer: no.
Now, I want to qualify that by stating that it’s my opinion only, and you are free to make your own ;-)
I think if you put something in that area that interferes with the warp field flow, the ship will tear apart. I have… Nothing to base that off, other than the fact we don’t see it, and if we don’t see it then there’s a reason. I know aridas and Todd have had a lot to say on the matter in the past, and I lean to their wider knowledge.
But as I say, this is just my opinion. You are entirely free to your own and to disagree with me. Respect for that.
I've been looking at the Oberth Class with a view to building a screen accurate one (or close to one). But there's an issue: 120 meters of length seems awfully small for such a ship, the windows hint at more then just three decks in the upper hull. Five would make better sense... Hummm. Keep the outline and scale her up?
Let me see...
Let me see...
Laid out the bare bones of her, few tweaks will happen to line a few things up better. I may have even found a way (or two) to get to the secondary hull pod thingy and keep to the original lines. Ones convoluted, the other idea is okish. But anyways, more on that later -
Length is held at 220 meters, which although is not what the studio says it is, I am going to run with because it makes better sense. But if you have a compelling argument as to why it should be 120 meters, let me know.
Comments welcome, more soon.
Length is held at 220 meters, which although is not what the studio says it is, I am going to run with because it makes better sense. But if you have a compelling argument as to why it should be 120 meters, let me know.
Comments welcome, more soon.
At 120 meters…you’d have to have the bridge be its own captain’s yacht…or the whole saucer slide out and land…the secondary hull just being a tow fish sensor pod.
Here, you have a REAL ship.
Shuttlebay in the back of the saucer? Or maybe a dedicated shuttle designed to back into a rear-saucer docking port and sleep outside..no carport.
This way, the shuttle could mirror the “spine” above the TOS impulse deck that points towards the bridge…
Here, you have a REAL ship.
Shuttlebay in the back of the saucer? Or maybe a dedicated shuttle designed to back into a rear-saucer docking port and sleep outside..no carport.
This way, the shuttle could mirror the “spine” above the TOS impulse deck that points towards the bridge…
AT 120 meters long it is possible to fit a TMP style bridge module on her, but it looks massive compared with the rest of the ship. I used the established window layout to work out a scale, ignoring the so called "bridge dome" on top which had another two levels of windows. If you factor those windows in, you end up with a massive ship. It's a mess, lol. So this is a compromise.
Again, keeping the lines of the original ship without making too many changes. I have put a TMP style bridge on, and yes - she will have a travel pod hatch as well on that, and in a few other places.
Hanger/shuttlebay will be at the front of the saucer, but I won't be adding side hangers, as space is a premium on this baby. As it stands, I think this ship could carry 1 shuttle, a couple of workbees and maybe a travel pod.
My thoughts re the secondary hull/mission pod are -
Either it is purely automated and the crew don't access it except on rare occasions using a travel pod - OR, it is semi-automated and turbolifts do something convoluted to get down there. I am playing with adding some "tubes" to the inside of the pylons to make that idea work. Thankfully these ships use artificial gravity, so it won't matter what angle the lift is at. Ex-Astras Scientia has a nice article about the scale of the ship and an idea about turbolifts could move between the hull -
With a couple of tweaks to the design, this could be made to work. But I'm going to play with it for a bit and see how it looks and feels.
TBH, the Oberth Class feels wrong to me, as it follows a look rather than a form. I did the McCaffrey Class as a protest against it. But I am curious to see if I can make the Oberth actually work within the lines that shape it.
We shall see!
Comments welcome, more soon.
TMP, we saw this tiny glass elevator in engineering. That’s what I am thinking here…but inclined, as here:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/the-capsule-that-saved-the-chilean-miners-5620851/
That makes sense…if you want an ultra-sensitive pinger…isolating the lower hull as much as possible makes sense.
Your earlier work that has a Refit neck may not have been sensitive enough…so this design was chosen.
An enclosed, tiny little tube would also lend itself to a horror story…as a Ridley-type character would slide down into trouble.
Right when she returns—everything looks safe—wait…wasn’t there a tube inside the far support on the other side of the—augh!
Now even that tube might be a tight fit—though the curve of the refit bridge might fit the rounded saucer slope a tad better.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/the-capsule-that-saved-the-chilean-miners-5620851/
That makes sense…if you want an ultra-sensitive pinger…isolating the lower hull as much as possible makes sense.
Your earlier work that has a Refit neck may not have been sensitive enough…so this design was chosen.
An enclosed, tiny little tube would also lend itself to a horror story…as a Ridley-type character would slide down into trouble.
Right when she returns—everything looks safe—wait…wasn’t there a tube inside the far support on the other side of the—augh!
Now even that tube might be a tight fit—though the curve of the refit bridge might fit the rounded saucer slope a tad better.
I think I can design something that works with a standard turbolift car :-)
Hummm, some things I am not sure about - such as the impulse deck. I'm using the one from the McCaffrey but it doesn't sit right to my mind's eye. I may use the original design -
And I've locked down the final "outline" I am going to build on -
Comments welcome, more soon
And I've locked down the final "outline" I am going to build on -
Comments welcome, more soon
I think purely because of how unusual it is/was at the time, the Oberth-class has always had a special place in my heart. I think you're doing excellent work!
I've read various articles that postulate that there are different sized versions, from scout size, medium and large. There are a few schematics dotted around the web that show different examples. One of my fanfic projects is set on a civilian-run uprated Oberth-class, and I'm using the 'Strategic Design' deck charts as reference for the size and interior, with a few personal modifications and changes.
Looking forward to seeing the end result!
I've read various articles that postulate that there are different sized versions, from scout size, medium and large. There are a few schematics dotted around the web that show different examples. One of my fanfic projects is set on a civilian-run uprated Oberth-class, and I'm using the 'Strategic Design' deck charts as reference for the size and interior, with a few personal modifications and changes.
Looking forward to seeing the end result!
Thank you
I've got a copy of the "Strategic Design" deck plans somewhere - I have a few different sets of them. Cool stuff, but in this case I'm working to a different scale. I don't think you can have a functional Oberth at 120 meters. But, that's just my own opinion ;-)
One of the nice things about this project is that I have a physical model of the Oberth Class on my desk that I can pick up and look at to get details from. Of course, I'm not doing a 1:1 representation, but rather re-working it into something that (logically to my mind) works, given the tech we see of the time.
Be curious to see what you think of the McCaffrey Class, which you will find towards the beginning of this thread.
Anyways, back to this baby;
Redid the impulse engines to be more like the actual model. Not liking them. May embellish them a little, or reshape them. They are not pretty... Functional? Maybe... But elegant they are not -
Comments welcome, more... Tomorrow.
Yeah.... I know what you mean. I do like the Oberth, but... How the heck does it work?The Oberth is quite a weird little ship.. I like weird little ships..
My plan is that the "pod" is fully automated. It's a fuel tank and a large planetary sensor array - fitting given this is a "scout ship." As publisur said, it's a big pinger, keeping it away from the main hull works.
Engineering is in the upper hull where the anti-matter and matter are mixed and pushed out to the nacelles, along with the rest of the ships crew facilities. The "pod" can be accessed by the crew by using a travel pod, or a shuttle with a docking rig if needed, but for 99.99% of the time it can tick over without crew intervention.
I think this is the only way it can work - even at this scale. The upper hull is inhabited and used by the crew.
This also means you can have different mission pods.
Food for thought.
You know where I stand, and it is similar to your view, but I’ll say it anyhow - that underslung thing makes no sense as an inhabited area. It has nacelle details. I can only think it was envisioned as some kind of auxiliary to the two little stubby nacelles. The fact you’d have to traverse pylons to get to it nixes inhabited for me. I don’t see it for the weapons pod on Reliant, and I don’t see it for this. That doesn’t mean people can’t get down there- just like the Enterprise nacelles, there are ways to get there. But that’s for servicing, with environmental suits or during total shutdown.
As I say, that’s how it looks… to me.
As I say, that’s how it looks… to me.
Totally agree with you, the pod is not inhabited.
Accessible?
Yes, but with extreme caveats. I put a couple of hatches on the pod for crew access - I guess you could call them inspection hatches. But habitable space? Nope. I agree that their is some sort of Jefferies Tube in the pylon, or you could use a travel pod. But no, no lifts in the pylons.
Gosh yes - I forgot to mention that the aft section of the pod, where those grills are, to my way of thinking, contain "sustainer coils" for the warp field. Not powered systems, but rather something that reflects and enhances the warp field so this baby can hang on to higher warp thresholds and get to places quickly and efficiently. The middle section of the pod is where the fuel tanks are, and the forward section contains the planetary sensor array.
As we've never seen another type of pod on these ships (I know some fans have created some, but they raise some issues - such as, where is fuel stored?) I don't think Starfleet tagged this as a "swiss army type knife" of a ship. But that's my own opinion.
The Oberth is what it is - a science scout.
