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James Cameron's Avatar: Discuss/Countdown

I don't think homogenizing planet populations is quite as bad as the "black person planet" episode that every Sci Fi show seems to love pulling. Having a tribal planet with a bunch of colored savages running around seems to be a staple of science fiction.
Sure, but how is that worse than the Uber-PC version of alien worlds that have the same ethnic mix as Earth? (white Vulcans, black Vulcans, asian Vulcans, you name it) ;) Talk about being afraid to offend... Of course true aliens would appear to be fairly homogeneous to us -

Maybe - it depends. There are things you can't do on screen due to cost but that would make sense biologically and sometimes show up in books - though rarely, because even in SF writing alien species tend to be portrayed as very homogenous.

Think about what forms "race" in humans. I make it parenthetical because race has no genetic basis whatsoever and today, in the West, we tend to discuss what are actually cultural differences in terms of surface biological characteristics - skin shading, whether eyes do or do not have the epicanthic fold (common to Asian races and some African races), hair color and texture, occasionally things like median height.

But talk to an African and you'll hear a whole other set of characteristics that determine race, because while we call all black people one race, Africans divide themselves into something like 2000 different races, and include characteristics like how high a person's forehead is (that is whether the hairline is high or low).

So any alien species with some sort of biological skin covering (a la feathers, fur, spines), or even their skin could be of different color, texture, etc. Slight differences in shapes of eyes, ears, noses, mouths. Shape and length of digits or limbs - any of these could be racial characteristics.

And my only problem with black Vulcans was that I'm sure there are Vulcans of many different skin tones - they just wouldn't be our skin tones. I always thought there should have been a Vulcan race with a more greenish tint to the skin (their equivalent of "white" since "white" people are actually pink due to our blood showing through as it were).

Does anyone know of any stories where alien species and their races are dealt with?
 
Also, wtf is up with the floating mountains on Pandora? : /

The mountains contain a ficticious element or compound called Unobtainium, which is superconducting at normal temperatures. This allows it to exhibit superdiamagnetism aka superconducting magnetic levitation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdiamagnetism

I still don't like the wonder element being called Unobtainium -- it reminds me too much of "The Core" in which it was an almost indistructable material.
 
Really, it's always seemed to me that the default for any hairless alien should be brown or black skin. Ultraviolet radiation sucks no matter what planet you're from.
Isn't that taking a rather narrow view of how different forms of life could be constructed?

Maybe a little. But so is creating innumerable alien species with a precise humanoid body plan.

Also, wtf is up with the floating mountains on Pandora? : /
This Pandora 'mockumentary' feature offers an explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIYb9g_U8jU (at 2:06 in the video)

The AVTR.com site also has background on the Avatar universe.[/QUOTE]

Neat.
 
A new site has opened, the Pandorapedia. I'm not sure if it is an official site or not, but it is a Wiki-like site that has a lot of information about species and technologies in the Avatar universe.

The 'Avatar' section itself is of particular interest, it has a lot of info on how the Avatars were created. The 'ISV Venture Star' section also has a lot of interesting info.
 
This Pandora 'mockumentary' feature offers an explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIYb9g_U8jU (at 2:06 in the video)

I liked that. I liked that a lot. They have the right idea; evoke a sense of wonder and show us a bizarre, impossible alien landscape - though the names aren't always the best.

I mean, direhorse? That might work as slang, but not in a Attenborough-esque documentary feature. It sounds like a World of Warcraft creature. They should be calling it Dirus Equus Latinus Verbus or some more plausible sounding nonsense.
 
This Pandora 'mockumentary' feature offers an explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIYb9g_U8jU (at 2:06 in the video)

I liked that. I liked that a lot. They have the right idea; evoke a sense of wonder and show us a bizarre, impossible alien landscape - though the names aren't always the best.

I mean, direhorse? That might work as slang, but not in a Attenborough-esque documentary feature. It sounds like a World of Warcraft creature. They should be calling it Dirus Equus Latinus Verbus or some more plausible sounding nonsense.

This brings up an interesting point and I'm curious about other people's opinions of something - all this supplementary information that can now accompany a story, even before the story itself has been told - is it a good thing? Sometimes I think what's not in a story is as important as what is in it - because gaps are where you as the viewer/ reader get to fill in with your own imagination. Is it possible to provide too much background information? Does everyone like getting to explore a universe with all this other material provided by the creators - as opposed to getting to imagine it yourself?
 
I like to think of it as the movie's equivalent of the appendices at the back of books like Lord Of The Rings or Dune. And I do think it's a good thing. Movies set in the real world have a big advantage over SF and fantasy in that the audience is already familiar with the setting. SF and fantasy have to convey extra information to the viewers, and exposition is hard to do well.


Marian
 
I like to think of it as the movie's equivalent of the appendices at the back of books like Lord Of The Rings or Dune.
Basically. Iit should not be used in lieu of exposition in the film itself, but something like this indicates how much - or how little - thought has been given to the world building. In a sense this is also just another kind of trailer, and actually one I'm more interested in than the normal trailers (since the alien world is the big draw for me in this picture).

Also, it answered one or two questions I had that really don't need to come up in the movie, such as, how much of this planet is a big tropical jungle (the bulk of the two continents, evidently - my comment about Na'vi fighting in the desert might seem superfluous now).

As for the capacity to imagine things... well, if Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies taught me anything, it's that those who are professional imaginers are much better at the business than I am. I'd read LOTR, but my mental image was rather paltry compared to the screen.
 
Ok, Avatars world premiere just finished in London. And there have been several critic screenings... So what is the reaction so far? Overwhelmingly positive!

This page has some collected some reactions (mostly from twitter) that have penetrated the review embargo: http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/12/10/first-avatar-reactions/

Some excerpts:
- Massawyrm (AICN) - "So I just got back from a movie. It was pretty great...if by pretty great I mean OMFGHOLYFUCKINGSHITOMGOMGOMG. Because that's what it was."

- Drew (Hitfix) (AKA Moriarty of AICN) - "I think the most accurate way to say it would be OMFGOMFGOMFG. Or words that effect."

- Harry Knowles (AICN) - "an astonishing sensory experience unlike anything I've seen on film. Holy **** wow. - I wonder what that could be about... ahem"

- ComingSoon.net (on facebook) - "We just saw Avatar. Here's our reaction... WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW! Unbelievable... amazing. James Cameron has done it again!"

- FirstShowing.net (on Twitter) - "James Cameron is a freakin' genius! I can't say much but wow, I loved it. Avatar was phenomenal, pretty much blew me away. I can't answer any questions guys but I can say I loved it. Also saw Neill Blomkamp at our screening, he loved it too."

- Nick Nunziata (CHUD) - "Can't write about the flick but I can be thrilled about it candidly. Cynical movie folks notwithstanding, not many will be disappointed."


Now to be fair a few twitters have said that they thought it was too long, or did not love it. But that is the worst I have read.
 
Neill Blomkamp, eh? That's interesting. Comparisons between his film and Cameron's are bound to be on the pen of every other critic in a couple of days, anyway, favourable or otherwise. We'll see how that goes.

I found this quote cute:

"I’ll take my chances with Fox legal…. Avatar was amazing, I loved it!”
I really, really don't think Fox legal is going to be annoyed people are letting slip they loved the movie. Now, 'what an overhyped P.O.S.', that might get their eagle eye.

I'm remaining sceptical regarding this, naturally, and yeah, this is mostly so as to not get my hopes up. I've been consistently more or less cautiously optimistic about this film, and now that the hype has hit a fever pitch I'm emphasizing that caution. Damn it I just want a good, solid planetary romance with some stunning visuals. Avatar, you'd better deliver why not, and if you do I may love you dearly.

Oh crap with the 'love' thing. But after this, yeah, this had better be good.
 
That's good to hear about the positive word-of-mouth for Avatar. I trust that those critics aren't just kissing ass. If they truly didn't like that film, especially Drew McWeeney, they would have made that clear & obvious. I've been slowly warming up to Avatar but my excitment level rises a few notches every day. It's just been raised another one. I'm interested to see what Devin Faraci of CHUD thinks.
 
Nick from CHUD just posted a longer reaction here:

"I was optimistic but worried about Avatar in the podcast and minimal comments. Was never anti, nor did I make a stink about the online stuff.

I walked past a magazine issue with a N'avi a minute ago and instantly was warmed by it and wanted to put the glasses on again.

No mincing words. Love it."


Devin's reaction will be interesting... He has probably been the biggest/loudest critic of Cameron and Avatar.
 
Yeah. I've rarely agreed with Devin's opinions. He has been very critical of Christopher Nolan's Batman films, which is fine and dandy, but then goes on and praises 300, calling it one of the best films of the past decade, which just confuses me. He's been very critical of Avatar so I'm interested in his take, especially since I've been very lukewarm over my anticipation about the film, as well.
 
I wonder if he still calls 300 that. I enjoyed it buckets when I first saw it, but it doesn't fare rewatches well (it's great to revel in its violent, sadistic misanthropism one time around, but go for a second dip and you feel dirty).

Even on the initial high it's a stretch to call it one of the best films of the decade. The female lead's speech about freedom is inept enough to cure anyone of that false assumption.

Also, since I mainly liked 300 for the visuals, and I'm mainly interested in Avatar for the visuals... hmm. Anyway, if the SFX are amazing, this surely bodes well for John Carter of Mars, which IIRC is using Avatar's SFX system, right? Or did I get that wrong?
 
I'm really excited for this move, almost as excited as I was for Star Trek. It's almost impossible for Cameron to make a bad movie. The 3D/SFX elements of this movie just elevates it. I'll be at the theater for sure next Friday to watch it.
 
I wonder if he still calls 300 that. I enjoyed it buckets when I first saw it, but it doesn't fare rewatches well (it's great to revel in its violent, sadistic misanthropism one time around, but go for a second dip and you feel dirty).

Even on the initial high it's a stretch to call it one of the best films of the decade. The female lead's speech about freedom is inept enough to cure anyone of that false assumption.

Also, since I mainly liked 300 for the visuals, and I'm mainly interested in Avatar for the visuals... hmm. Anyway, if the SFX are amazing, this surely bodes well for John Carter of Mars, which IIRC is using Avatar's SFX system, right? Or did I get that wrong?

Devin actually didn't like 300 on initial inspection, if I remember correctly, but actually since it has been released has grown fonder of it. He likes it mostly because, in his defense, he feels stories are too reliant on realism in their storytelling these days, and prefers films like Up that whisk you away in their storytelling without having to explain every little detail. While I can appreciate that sentiment, I feel it is too representative of a lot of moviegoers these days who would rather watch a brainless Michael Bay movie than anything resembling intelligence. I'm not trying to discount Up, by the way -- that's a rare example of adult fare that speaks to generations -- but to sum up all of cinema like that, saying films are too "serious and realistic", is a bit of a generalization in my opinion.
 
Devin actually didn't like 300 on initial inspection, if I remember correctly, but actually since it has been released has grown fonder of it. He likes it mostly because, in his defense, he feels stories are too reliant on realism in their storytelling these days, and prefers films like Up that whisk you away in their storytelling without having to explain every little detail. While I can appreciate that sentiment, I feel it is too representative of a lot of moviegoers these days who would rather watch a brainless Michael Bay movie than anything resembling intelligence.

I feign pretentiousness fairly well (White Ribbon was awesome, really), but I'd love to see a brainless Michael Bay movie that was not a pile of crap.

Really, that's my only problem with a lot brainless action cinema - it's terrible. I'm willing to shut my brain off, but even then I have standards, like not being bored.

And interesting he brought up Up, before there was this other animated feature this year which is basically a critique of living in a fantasy world. Caroline!*

On topic: Avatar doesn't need to be smart for me to love it, but it damn well needs to be good. I want my eye candy and I want to be entertained for the almost three hour length.

*Coraline! Henry Selick's still got it, the rascal. But Pixar has the Oscar, naturally.
 
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