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I've Found The West Wing

I ended up watching the final season just recently on DVD, so I didn't have much perspective on how far in front/behind the US election the story was told, but as far as I could tell, the West Wing was a pale imitation of the actual events.

Well, of course it can't be an "imitation" since it came first, but yes, one would hope that the reality would be more impressive than the fiction (though hopefully not as crisis-laden).

Was it clear two years ago that Rahm Emanuel would be Obama's chief of staff if Obama were elected?

On the contrary, it was a surprising choice. President Obama ran on the platform of bipartisan unity and pragmatism, and Emanuel's reputation is as an aggressive partisan hothead. Some saw his appointment as casting Obama's bipartisan sincerity in doubt, though I figured it was more of that "team of rivals" thinking -- he knew he needed someone to balance him out, to be the bad cop when necessary.

Obama showed up on national radar in '04, so I know that Vinick's youth, ethnicity and "charm" were meant to be based on Obama (though I never heard Santos say anything that merited the response people gave it).

Huh? Santos was the young, ethnic charmer.


The nuclear meltdown felt just like the economic crisis. Rep nominee dragged down in the polls by a crisis not of his doing, but left with lots to apologize for.

Strong support for nuclear power is one thing Vinick and McCain definitely have in common. And it's the one area where I agreed with them the most.

I guess any Republican is liable to name a VP pick who appeals to the ... more extreme side of the party, so that's not too prescient.

What other details did West Wing predict? Which ones were good writing, and which ones were co-incidence?

Of course nobody's proposing there's some kind of magic at work here, that they predicted things nobody could've anticipated. But remember, hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to look back at a solid bit of extrapolation and say "Aww, anyone coulda seen that," but usually most people didn't see it.

It wasn't coincidence either. The reason the writers were able to construct a fictional election that corresponded so closely to the real one is because the show's writers, producers, and consultants included people with real experience in politics and government, familiar with the people and trends involved, and thus able to engage in speculation that may end up fairly close to what actually happens. It's the same principle that allows science fiction writers who are knowledgeable about science and technology to come up with speculations that are then echoed by real discoveries and advances. Not because they knew it would happen, of course, but because they had the expertise to know what was plausible, to see the patterns and trends and project them forward.

So essentially TWW was a work of political science fiction; it was fiction based on informed scientific extrapolation, with the science in question being political science. And due to the expertise of the people involved, it was a work of hard SF. Therefore, its speculations about the future were based on a good understanding of the patterns, personalities, and trends involved, which explains why it proved so similar to subsequent reality. But just because it's not magic doesn't mean that good, solid, informed speculative work should be devalued.
 
Just started Season 6... isn't it awfully expensive to have Armin Mueller-Stahl as a guest star for several episodes? :)

Anyway, I still think that "Shutdown" and "The Supremes" were the best episodes of Season 5. A lot of episodes were just average, but these were clearly Sorkin-level quality. ;)
 
Just started Season 6... isn't it awfully expensive to have Armin Mueller-Stahl as a guest star for several episodes? :)

Well, at least someone named Armin got to appear in the show. The third (?) season finale, the one with Bartlet attending that Shakespeare-based musical, was supposed to have Armin Shimerman (DS9's Quark) as one of the players, and he was listed in the guest cast, but all his scenes were cut out.
 
Just started Season 6... isn't it awfully expensive to have Armin Mueller-Stahl as a guest star for several episodes? :)

Well, at least someone named Armin got to appear in the show. The third (?) season finale, the one with Bartlet attending that Shakespeare-based musical, was supposed to have Armin Shimerman (DS9's Quark) as one of the players, and he was listed in the guest cast, but all his scenes were cut out.

Actually, I think you see him very briefly on the stage during "Posse Comitatus."
 
By the way, did you guys read the meeting between Bartlet and Obama that Aaron Sorkin wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/opinion/21dowd-sorkin.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin

I read that, but, you know, the ironic thing is that Sorkin got it absolutely wrong. Obama's victory in the 2008 election was due to the fact that he was calm and in control -- he played it cool. Sorkin has Bartlet trying to tell him that he needs to be angry -- which, ironically, is how Senator McCain usually presented himself, and was one of the things that alienated enough voters from him that Obama was considered to win the debates.

To be fair to Sorkin, though, that article was written at Obama's general election low point in the polls, just after McCain had announced Palin as his running mate but before the economic meltdown, the debates, and Palin's thoroughly embarrassing herself in the Katie Couric interview, so it's easy to see where that might have seemed like good advice at the time. (Also, frankly, I suspect that Sorkin may not have fully taken in mind just how fundamentally politics has changed since the Clinton era -- and, frankly, since Hurricane Katrina.)
 
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^^Still, it was great to see Sorkin writing Bartlet again.

Oh, definitely. Though, I think Bartlet was written as being much more angry than he normally was in the show. (Presumably because Sorkin himself was angry at the time.)
 
^^Oh, Bartlet had some marvelous rants from time to time. He even tore into God once, after Mrs. Landingham's funeral.
 
^^Still, it was great to see Sorkin writing Bartlet again.

I missed that during the election, not too surprising as I despise Mo Dowd.

I liked the concept, but I don't see either of the two men giving those lines. And, perhaps most importantly, if I may borrow a phrase from Sorkin, he forgot the funny....
 
^^Oh, Bartlet had some marvelous rants from time to time. He even tore into God once, after Mrs. Landingham's funeral.

Oh, sure. But most of the time, he wasn't nearly that angry.

^^Still, it was great to see Sorkin writing Bartlet again.

I missed that during the election, not too surprising as I despise Mo Dowd.

I liked the concept, but I don't see either of the two men giving those lines. And, perhaps most importantly, if I may borrow a phrase from Sorkin, he forgot the funny....

I agree that I don't quite see Obama being that submissive. But I can totally see Sheen delivering those lines. And parts of it were hysterical.

"You're losing white women right and left."

"I know."

"I mean, you're REALLY losing them."

"I know."

"I mean, didn't even know there WERE that many white women!"
 
You could always tell when Sorkin was angry, because he'd send his characters off on absurd rants.

I love CJ, but I absolutely cannot watch that scene in the season 3 episode where she finds out that the US has made another arms sale to Qumar. "THEY'RE KILLING THE WOMEN, NANCY!" Ugh.

Meanwhile, Bartlet swearing at God in latin was just awesome.
 
One thing that annoys me about the show is the lack of plot to relationships...

Josh fancies Joey then the plot is dropped so quick

Josh is with Amy but now I don't know, its hard to know ? (in late season 4 at moment)

Charlie and Zowie broke up off screen and now he wants her back because that French dude is a total PRICK who shot be shot by the secret service.

CJ and Danny seems to just stop.

Sam and Leo's daughter too...

All these plots get dropped with no info :rolleyes:
 
^^

Aaron Sorkin is certainly a very gifted writer when it comes to creating great characters and great mono-/dialogues. And he was clearly superior to any other West Wing writer. But for me, his most annoying trait is his habit of letting characters suddenly dissappear without any real explanation where they went: Mandy Hampton, Ainsley Hayes, Sam Seaborn.

It was mentioned that Sam was probably going to lose his congressional race and that was it. No information about whether he actually lost. And no information what happened with Sam after that. In fact, when Will Bailey got Sam's job it was explicitly mentioned that he was going to be promoted senior counselor to the president if he loses in California. But instead he simply disappeared from the show and the senior counselor thing wasn't mentioned again either. Sorkin doesn't really seem to know how to write a character out.
 
^^

Aaron Sorkin is certainly a very gifted writer when it comes to creating great characters and great mono-/dialogues. And he was clearly superior to any other West Wing writer. But for me, his most annoying trait is his habit of letting characters suddenly dissappear without any real explanation where they went: Mandy Hampton, Ainsley Hayes, Sam Seaborn.

It was mentioned that Sam was probably going to lose his congressional race and that was it. No information about whether he actually lost. And no information what happened with Sam after that. In fact, when Will Bailey got Sam's job it was explicitly mentioned that he was going to be promoted senior counselor to the president if he loses in California. But instead he simply disappeared from the show and the senior counselor thing wasn't mentioned again either. Sorkin doesn't really seem to know how to write a character out.

Well, Sam and Ainsley came back... :)
 
^^

It was mentioned that Sam was probably going to lose his congressional race and that was it. No information about whether he actually lost. And no information what happened with Sam after that. In fact, when Will Bailey got Sam's job it was explicitly mentioned that he was going to be promoted senior counselor to the president if he loses in California. But instead he simply disappeared from the show and the senior counselor thing wasn't mentioned again either. Sorkin doesn't really seem to know how to write a character out.

In Sorkin's defense on this one small point. The Sam storyline ended in the last episodes of season 4, after that Sorkin was already gone and couldn't add to it.
 
Aah Mandyland, home of the forgotten West Wing characters. I find it hilarious that Mandy just disappeared in the middle of a shooting and nobody even asked where she got to. :lol:

The disappearing characters and plot-lines was annoying, but that's just the way Sorkin was; he never seemed to plan things out and consequently forgot a lot of the stuff that was going on. That's one of the few good things which happened during the final seasons, the writing staff didn't let quite as many stories just disappears into nothingness. Except that Mr Frost thing, I still don't know what that was about. :wtf:
 
Josh fancies Joey then the plot is dropped so quick

It doesn't work out. Joey returns many more times.

Josh is with Amy but now I don't know, its hard to know ? (in late season 4 at moment)
This storyline is picked up late in season four and beyond.

Charlie and Zowie broke up off screen and now he wants her back because that French dude is a total PRICK who shot be shot by the secret service.
Charlie and Zoe didn't recieve as much resolution as I would like, but there is a little more to come in season six.

CJ and Danny seems to just stop.
They're an on again/off again couple. Danny leaves DC a couple of times to go do other things, but don't worry, this is also picked up again in season seven.

Sam and Leo's daughter too...
Unfortunately, Sam departed the show. But we end up seeing both him and Leo's daughter again. Things didn't work out between them. They both moved on in their lives.

Some of this is explicit, some of this can be intuited, but in the end, I think it's mostly coherent. Besides the way Danny just disappears for long periods of time, it mostly works for me.
 
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