I've Found The West Wing

[Angel4576]

In all fairness Angelall those people you listed come back on the show, they just took some time off. A lot of time in some cases.

Spoiler: Season 4 on...

Danny disappears throughout the show at different times for seasons on end. Hoynes was written off well,
Lord John came back a few more times. Most notable after John Spencer's untimely death.

What you said about Will I think is why the later seasons are cast in a terrible light, some of the stories are lame, but the characters were destroyed. They made VP Hoynes a sex pervert who CJ slept with! Will was a great replacement for Sam, who wanted off the show, so it wasn't anyone's fault. Josh became a screw up for awhile. Toby and Josh fight a lot for no reason. CJ get's the biggest job jump ever, Toby becomes a traitor. They add some new CIA person with blonde hair who was the most dislikable character on TV until Fringe started.

The show also became more ER-ized. Season 5 had no real flow, it had great stand alone episodes, but there was no real point besides "Republicans are evil". Season 6 solved Middle Eastern peace in 5 episodes, and season 7 dealt with the terrible Space Shuttle story.

I'd definitely agree with some of these points.

Spoiler: Seasons 5-7 Spoilers

Re Danny, it wasn't until he turned up again towards the end of season 7 that I realised how much the show had missed the character. You're right, he had disappeared previously, but he usually came back again after a year or so. I think by the time he came back towards the end of the series he'd been gone for a couple of years at least?

Hoynes, I was genuinely disappointed with how they turned that character. He started off dislikable, and they developed him to the point of him becoming a well-rounded character that was following a good progression. Then, pervert. Even when they brought him back towards the end for the 'nomination' storyline, he was left a broken and pitiful version of the potentially once great character he was becoming. As much as I liked the 'Santos' storyline of the later seasons, it would have been more meaningful still had he taken on and beaten challengers of merit, instead of cardboard-cutout Bingo Bob, and Sex Pervert Hoynes.

Will, I thought was a great character when he was first introduced. He continued to be until he went to work for the VP, then instant tw*t. Eventually he returns to the fold to replace Toby and hey presto, he's great again! Don't get me started on what they did to Toby, the poor sod was well and truly fcuked over. Both the character and Schiff deserved better after six years.

Agree about the season five comments, there wasn't really any meaningful direction other than the one you pointed out. The middle-east story bored the fcuk out of me, and to be fair, patronised the complexities of that particular situation by simply getting everyone together for a good ol' chat, yeah that'll fix it!

Re the CIA blonde, Kate Harper, we'd disliked Mary McCormack since she irritated the fcuk out of us on Murder One.

I was going to start a new thread for this, but here seems as good a place as any to ask, anyone know of any version of the R2 DVDs that include the audio commentaries that the R1 releases had? The 'complete series' boxset is great with the 2 discs of extras, but unless I'm mistaken the audio commentaries are still sadly missing.

 

[bigdaddy]

You aren't missing a lot from the no commentaries, one of them has 3-4 people "talking", they talk for like 5 minutes in 44 minutes, and they aren't even talking to each other, they were taped at different times.

More interesting is that the last season has none, while the 5th and 6th have about 2 each. These aren't like the Futurama discs where every episode has a great talk, the West Wing ones are rather pointless, except for the season 1 finale, and season 2 starter, and the last episode of season 4, Sorkin's last episode.

And why do you say fcuk instead of fuck? It's the same meaning? if you are going to swear, swear correctly.

Also, I agree with Will, he became an ass, and then went back to normal! It was amazing!

 

[Angel4576]

^^ It's habit. On most boards I use 'fcuk' is the easiest way to get past the filters. Luckily there's no such thing here, but I don't always remember!

Well at least I'm reassured now that I don't have to go out and find another version of the WW discs.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Spoiler: Some spoilers for Season 5

The way Bob Russell got his job also seemed a bit farfetched to me. Some totally obscure backbancher who hasn't done anything noteworthy before? I know that he was supposedly forced upon the White House by Congress. But in the real world either Congress or the White House (or both) would have been blasted by the media for this seemingly random and mediocre choice.

That didn't stop John McCain...

Yeah, and we all know how well this worked out for his campaign in the end...

 

[Harvey]

Season five struggle a bit to regain the show's tone, but season six and seven were firing on all cylinders. On a whole, I have to admit to greatly enjoying the show. I've seen it all the way through two or three times now.

 

[Twilight]

I'm in the process of watching it for the first time through netflix - I'm almost to the end of Season 3

SUCH an amazing show.

 

[Mr Light]

I started Season Six yesterday, and wow it just seemed so much better. I ended up watching SIX episodes in one day! The introduction of new characters really freshened up the show, and the changing situation with CJ/Leo/Toby also really changed the status quo. I'm really enjoying the show again now!

 

[Christopher]

The show totally lost its way in S5. Without Sorkin, who'd written virtually the entire series in the first four years, the writers had no idea what to do with the show or the characters. The storytelling stabilized in S6&7, and there was some worthwhile stuff there, but the surviving characters simply weren't the same people they were in the Sorkin years. It was like watching an alternate-universe version of the characters.

 

[TheGodBen]

I only started watching it from the end of season 4 and then the beginning of season 5, so I never noticed the dip in quality because it was still way better than everything else on TV. A few months later they started showing season 4 as a repeat and I watched 20 Hours in America thinking it was a special comedy episode; little did I know that the entire first four seasons were that funny and cleverly written. Now when I watch it on DVD it is very easy to notice the huge dip in quality is season five. Six and Seven were much better, they were about as close as the show could get to the Sorkin years without Sorkin writing it.

The second season is easily the best, the arc going from 17 People to Two Cathedrals is just phenomenal television. The press conference with Brothers in Arms playing is the slickest piece of television I've ever witnessed, and I think it's going to be impossible to surpass as my favourite television moment.

 

[Twilight]

The second season is easily the best, the arc going from 17 People to Two Cathedrals is just phenomenal television. The press conference with Brothers in Arms playing is the slickest piece of television I've ever witnessed, and I think it's going to be impossible to surpass as my favourite television moment.

That's what's so brilliant about WW.

I mean, all he's really doing in that scene is deciding to run for re-election and announce it. I mean, not that big of a deal, right? It's not that shocking for a first term president to seek re-election.

But damn, what a stunning scene that is! So much subtext and meaning - it's something so much deeper than what it would appear to just a reporter watching the press conference.

 

[bigdaddy]

I love the episode were the White House lawyer needs a new recorder because his won't stop playing, but it's not like that has ever caused problems in a white house.

Then the President comes in and goes... "Giant government cover-up" and all the lawyer does turn, and smash the recorder to pieces, and then turns back to the President. Then the opening credits begin.

Sorkin writes everything he does, it's why he never finishes on time. He wrote all of the first season of Sports Night and almost none of the second, because of West Wing.

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ My favorite teaser is "The Leadership Breakfast," which is nothing more than an elaborate set up for Charlie to have to wake up the president and ask, "Remember when you told me not to wake you unless the building was on fire?"

 

[Christopher]

That's what's so brilliant about WW.

I mean, all he's really doing in that scene is deciding to run for re-election and announce it. I mean, not that big of a deal, right? It's not that shocking for a first term president to seek re-election.

Well, in context it was a huge deal, because it had been revealed that Bartlet had MS and had covered it up. So the conventional wisdom was that he was a political dead horse, that the concerns about his health and the lingering scandal would make him unelectable. Everyone believed that the right thing for him to do, politically, strategically, and perhaps morally, was to step aside in favor of Hoynes. So it was indeed a shocking and risky decision for him to make.

I love the episode were the White House lawyer needs a new recorder because his won't stop playing, but it's not like that has ever caused problems in a white house.

Then the President comes in and goes... "Giant government cover-up" and all the lawyer does turn, and smash the recorder to pieces, and then turns back to the President. Then the opening credits begin.

Back before I got into the show, my father made a point of telling me about that scene and how wonderfully it was constructed. Sorkin did a great job of setting up the components of the punchline -- the recorder that wouldn't shut off and the big wooden gavel -- without telegraphing the joke. He did that sort of thing a lot.

 

[bigdaddy]

Oh yeah... I just remembered, one commentary explains why The President puts his coat on in an interesting way, Martin Sheen has a back problem, or a problem with one of his arms where he can't stretch his arms out all the way, so that's why he puts coats on differently.

 

[Christopher]

^^Gee, who would've thought Jed Bartlet would have something in common with John McCain? Except McCain's problem is with raising his arms above his chest, not stretching them out.

 

[Mr Light]

I always wondered about the coat thing. I just saw an episode where he flips it over with CJ right next to him and he whacks her hair and face with the coat whipping past and the actress tries not to flinch and react as the scene goes on, it was pretty amusing.

 

[bigdaddy]

I can't remember the exact reason, but it's something to do with him in real life and some injury. That's the only thing neat I learned from the commentaries, Mrs. Laningham was written off the show because they needed a character to set the wheels in motion, and she was filming a pilot for some show, the pilot was never picked up.

 

[Harvey]

I think Martin Sheen had a back problem when he was growing up, or perhaps an arm injury, that only allowed him the use of one arm. He learned to put on a coat this way, and when he recovered from the injury, he continued to put on his coat in the way he had learned.

That's how I remember the anecdote, anyhow.

 

[Angel4576]

^^ It's something to do with one of his arms. It's explained in one of the Season 2 extras from memory. We only watched it the other night.....

 

[TheGodBen]

I've tried to reproduce his way of putting on a coat, but all I managed to do was hurt my arm.