It's official: Thank God for Remastered!

[BillJ]

You'd hear people complain about TOS-R even if they'd taken the original model and reshot the scenes in front of a bluescreen instead of recreating them digitally.

This kind of criticism makes me sick because it clearly shows you understand absolutely NOTHING about what we're criticizing. We don't embrace what you approve of and so we're deficient in some way.

The point is this: You could dig Roddenberry and Justman out of the ground to direct a remastering of TOS and you'd still have people bitching and moaning about the choices they would make.

 

[Warped9]

You'd hear people complain about TOS-R even if they'd taken the original model and reshot the scenes in front of a bluescreen instead of recreating them digitally.

This kind of criticism makes me sick because it clearly shows you understand absolutely NOTHING about what we're criticizing. We don't embrace what you approve of and so we're deficient in some way.

The point is this: You could dig Roddenberry and Justman out of the ground to direct a remastering of TOS and you'd still have people bitching and moaning about the choices they would make.

Yeah. And what's your point? That you expect absolutely everyone to agree? As with anything discussed that isn't going to happen. This is a message board and discussion forum and so opinions of all sorts are going to be posted including dissenting ones.

 

[BillJ]

This kind of criticism makes me sick because it clearly shows you understand absolutely NOTHING about what we're criticizing. We don't embrace what you approve of and so we're deficient in some way.

The point is this: You could dig Roddenberry and Justman out of the ground to direct a remastering of TOS and you'd still have people bitching and moaning about the choices they would make.

Yeah. And what's your point? That you expect absolutely everyone to agree? As with anything discussed that isn't going to happen. This is a message board and discussion forum and so opinions of all sorts are going to be posted including dissenting ones.

The point is that this board has turned into the film Groundhog Day. How many different ways can you say that you dislike Star Trek Remastered and Star Trek 2009. Or how many times can I come in and say that I like the material?

Don't take it personally.

I'm actually reminded of a line from Voyager...

QUINN: The road takes us to the rest of the universe and then it leads back here. An endless circle.

This board has become the endless circle. After eight years I'm not sure there's anything new to say. Even when there is new material it seems like the same arguments come to the fore.

 

[Kelso]

This forum has always been that way. Do you expect everyone's opinions to change in the fourth TOS-R thread... or the twentieth? how about the 430th "Which is your favorite season?" thread? I'm just glad we're done with the "Should the special effects be redone?" threads, and haven't gotten to the "When will the special effects be redone again?" threads yet.

As for the bitching... the bitchers who bitch about the bitchers are much bitchier than the bitchers are. That's why I bitch about them, and leave the bitchers alone.

or

People will disagree with you. That's life. Grow a pair.

 

[BillJ]

As for the bitching... the bitchers who bitch about the bitchers are much bitchier than the bitchers are. That's why I bitch about them, and leave the bitchers alone.

or

People will disagree with you. That's life. Grow a pair.

I don't think this has anything to do with "bitching" or "growing a pair".

I really think it has more to do with how many times you can repeat yourself on a certain subject before it isn't fun anymore.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

If that is the case, then the fault lies not with the dissenters but with the supporter of TOS-R who started this thread.

 

[Warped9]

This forum has always been that way. Do you expect everyone's opinions to change in the fourth TOS-R thread... or the twentieth? how about the 430th "Which is your favorite season?" thread? I'm just glad we're done with the "Should the special effects be redone?" threads, and haven't gotten to the "When will the special effects be redone again?" threads yet.

As for the bitching... the bitchers who bitch about the bitchers are much bitchier than the bitchers are. That's why I bitch about them, and leave the bitchers alone.

or

People will disagree with you. That's life. Grow a pair.

You know you can experience the same thing when you hang around with the same group of friends for awhile, The same subjects keep coming up and the same remarks are aired. After awhile it gets stale. A lot of new posters--and I experienced the same thing when I started--are really into getting their viewpoint across. And they participate in and can start lots of threads. But given enough time their posts become fewer and fewer as they see familiar ground being covered over and over again.

 

[JarodRussell]

You know you can experience the same thing when you hang around with the same group of friends for awhile, The same subjects keep coming up and the same remarks are aired. After awhile it gets stale.

Only if the only things your friends do is to sit around while the sun is shining brightly outside.

 

[Char Aznable]

Y'know. Everyone who dislikes the remastered episodes will go on and on about how different the scenes with live action vs the scenes with CGI are. However, every single person I've shown the new remastered episodes to didn't even know the effects were new. I actually told them the space ship scenes and all were new and they were shocked. Keep in mind, these were people who had hardly seen a Star Trek episode before and they bought it hook line and sinker.

So, that basically torpedos the naysayers arguments.

 

[Chrisisall]

Y'know. Everyone who dislikes the remastered episodes will go on and on about how different the scenes with live action vs the scenes with CGI are. However, every single person I've shown the new remastered episodes to didn't even know the effects were new. I actually told them the space ship scenes and all were new and they were shocked. Keep in mind, these were people who had hardly seen a Star Trek episode before and they bought it hook line and sinker.

So, that basically torpedos the naysayers arguments.

I showed my son Tomorrow is Yesterday (non-R) on the Time Travel Collection & he liked it a lot. When I got the remastered season and we got to that one, he said, "Wow Dad! That looks so much better than it did!! Why didn't they do the effects that way in the first place? Was it a money thing?" He'd seen 2001, and knew that old FX didn't have to mean bad.
One more little kid vote for TOS-R.

 

[A beaker full of death]

One more little kid vote for TOS-R.

That would appear to be the target demographic.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Can we all just agree that the new special effects will appeal to younger viewers and viewers who were turned off to Trek because it looked "fake"? And I'm sure many of us who prefer the original effects will also agree that some of the original effects were quite awful. However, there were some sequences--the Rigel matte painting from "The Cage," the shots of the Enterprise and Botany Bay in "Space Seed," the lingering shot of the Enterprise's topside in "Journey to Babel," the pull into her underside and sensor dome in "Let This Be..."--that are so beautiful to our eyes (even if they do not convince 100%--or even 70%) that we'd rather not see them replaced even if that means tolerating degraded compositions and repetitive sequences elsewhere. We appreciate the artistry that was done within the actual constraints of the era. "Better," to us, is not always better.

You disagree? Fine. Hey, you know what? You've already won: the improvement/damage is done. To claim that those who disagree with you are somehow deficient (delusional, childish, clinging to a fetish) does nothing more than make you look smug, churlish and rude. Really, do any of us need any more of that in our lives? I know I don't.

The same paradigm obtains whenever the merits of the last movie come up for debate, btw, and that's a debate where I find myself firmly agreeing with those who like the movie. Nevertheless, I'm often so turned off by the nastiness of the pro camp that I find myself throwing in with the cons.

More and more, I find I can tolerate just about any opinion stated on this board. It's the lack of basic respect that galls me.

 

[Chrisisall]

It's the lack of basic respect that galls me.

HERBERT!!!!


Just kidding!

Yeah, I'm glad that both versions exist to make everyone happy myself. The original FX artists are still respected, and the peeps that want the pretty pretty are content. Win/win.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

We reach, brother, we reach.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I showed my son Tomorrow is Yesterday (non-R) on the Time Travel Collection & he liked it a lot. When I got the remastered season and we got to that one, he said, "Wow Dad! That looks so much better than it did!! Why didn't they do the effects that way in the first place? Was it a money thing?"

See, now this is an episode that actually was totally turned around and improved by the new effects. This episode depended on it for the visuals to make sense at the end. Until now, it was never completely clear what was happening: no sun, the Enterprise is in one spot bouncing up and down, and then slowly turning around. The "Enterprise in the sky" clips were "good enough" to get the point across back then. Now, though, the sky bits look amazing. They even redid the "under cloud cover" shot of Christopher's jet which looks beautiful, where before it was just some weird night looking shot. Whenever I watch this episode, it is ALWAYS the TOS-R version, because the story is much more effective because of the improvements. But, I always switch to the "original mono broadcast" sound mix.

This is why I don't dismiss the work. There are a number of times where it does make a difference in full appreciating the story. Not because of the "ewwww, OLD!" factor, or because I can see through the nacelles of something.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

What I'll agree to is that some of the CG effects work really well and others don't.

There weren't many matte painting replacements/extensions that I didn't like. About fifty-fifty on planets and ships other than the Enterprise.

There really are two parts to this whole argument: was there a need to put new effects into the show for Blu-ray, and did they do a good job?

 

[Ssosmcin]

There really are two parts to this whole argument: was there a need to put new effects into the show for Blu-ray, and did they do a good job?

A "need"? Probably not, there are plenty of movies and shows which have effects that look cruddy in HD. However, if they wanted to keep the show alive past "my" generation, then yes, because a great many people would be turned off by the outdated graphics. It certainly does no harm, particularly since you can watch either version. And as much as I usually watch the originals, I am glad they did it. I love having the option, cuz I do find myself in the mood for the updated versions now and again.

Did they do a good job? Most of the time. Some episodes didn't come out so great, a couple of shots look terrible (mostly involving replicating human movement), and some look fake but not in an ""honor the series" way. But the majority of the effects look really good. I'm just not one of those people who could never watch the old versions ever again because they look so much better now. Lower quality prints and images never bothered me.

 

[Chrisisall]

I'm just not one of those people who could never watch the old versions ever again because they look so much better now. Lower quality prints and images never bothered me.

I'm a visual person first & foremost. The crappy prints of the movies on the so-called Collector's Editions DVDs were hard to look at for me- so much so that I sold them for peanuts to be rid of them. Then this new batch came out. And the Remastered OS.
Man, I'm in ocular Trek Valhalla.

 

[Chrisisall]

Question for those that care not for the remastered episodes:
Which is worse- CGIing Original Trek, or the JJPrise design?

 

[Warped9]

Question for those that care not for the remastered episodes:
Which is worse- CGIing Original Trek, or the JJPrise design?

JJprise is crap, but it's a reboot and its own thing and nothing to do with TOS.

How they remade the TOS f/x isn't a complete write-off, but it's botched.