You must be in the midwest, eh?
It's official: Thank God for Remastered!
- Thread starter darkwing_duck1
- Start date
Trek remastered was bounced around three stations during the run and at least one channel had it airing in the very small hours of the morning. Oh, yes, this was in New York.
Also, while the enhanced episodes were playing, un-enhanced Trek was running on TV Land. While it's not on the schedule at the moment, it is still listed on their website as a show they are able to run. So, Trek on TV wasn't "dead" when TOS-R arrived, since TV Land is a nationally available channel. Just like Spike, SFC or WGN. And TOS-R isn't running anywhere right now.
Here's the thing: you can like the new effects, or you can like the old effects, or you can like both.A person isn't an idiot, insane, in denial, or just wrong for liking one or the other. You can't deal with an AMT model kit on a 43 year old TV episode? Fine. Guess what? I can. I don't have and never have had a problem accepting their limitations in money and technology, which is why I can enjoy King Kong, or Rocketship X-M or any film with outdated FX. As long as the story is good, why is it a major issue? Regarding TDM, I also really enjoy what the new FX have done to the episode. When I watch Trek, my mood at the moment dictates which version I watch. Sometimes I want the new FX, other times I prefer the original. Hell, a lot of the time I'll watch the old laserdisc prints. Because all I am changing up are the trappings. The stories and performances remain identical. I have no objection to the new FX because - and this is key - the originals were made available and not discarded.
I'm glad TOS-R got more people to sample the series. I'm even more glad the 2009 movie did that as well. But the simple fact is that neither TOS or TOS-R is being shown nationally at the moment. Who cares? They sell fine on DVD and Blu-Ray, which is really all you can expect from a 44 year old TV program. That's the real reason it's not "all over the dial": it's OLD. No amount of prettied up FX will alter the fact that a lot of people will look at Trek as camp (a blinking Gorn doesn't make the costume or the fights less cheesy and I love the episode). 44 year old TV shows just don't have the same hold on the masses as they do to the fans. It will NEVER burn up the ratings again. One version is only better than another in your own mind, by your own standards. Why argue about it? Why not just enjoy the damned episodes without the constant pissing matches?
Also, while the enhanced episodes were playing, un-enhanced Trek was running on TV Land. While it's not on the schedule at the moment, it is still listed on their website as a show they are able to run. So, Trek on TV wasn't "dead" when TOS-R arrived, since TV Land is a nationally available channel. Just like Spike, SFC or WGN. And TOS-R isn't running anywhere right now.
Here's the thing: you can like the new effects, or you can like the old effects, or you can like both.A person isn't an idiot, insane, in denial, or just wrong for liking one or the other. You can't deal with an AMT model kit on a 43 year old TV episode? Fine. Guess what? I can. I don't have and never have had a problem accepting their limitations in money and technology, which is why I can enjoy King Kong, or Rocketship X-M or any film with outdated FX. As long as the story is good, why is it a major issue? Regarding TDM, I also really enjoy what the new FX have done to the episode. When I watch Trek, my mood at the moment dictates which version I watch. Sometimes I want the new FX, other times I prefer the original. Hell, a lot of the time I'll watch the old laserdisc prints. Because all I am changing up are the trappings. The stories and performances remain identical. I have no objection to the new FX because - and this is key - the originals were made available and not discarded.
I'm glad TOS-R got more people to sample the series. I'm even more glad the 2009 movie did that as well. But the simple fact is that neither TOS or TOS-R is being shown nationally at the moment. Who cares? They sell fine on DVD and Blu-Ray, which is really all you can expect from a 44 year old TV program. That's the real reason it's not "all over the dial": it's OLD. No amount of prettied up FX will alter the fact that a lot of people will look at Trek as camp (a blinking Gorn doesn't make the costume or the fights less cheesy and I love the episode). 44 year old TV shows just don't have the same hold on the masses as they do to the fans. It will NEVER burn up the ratings again. One version is only better than another in your own mind, by your own standards. Why argue about it? Why not just enjoy the damned episodes without the constant pissing matches?
I'm rejoicing, not pissing.
Is this necessary?
Not too transparent.
Okay, upthread I railed against the FX choices that the TOS-SE
team made and I still hold those views. However, the cleanup job that the team did on the live action footage was completely amazing IMO. I own TOS on VHS, DVD and Blu-ray and never has the live action stuff looked as good as it does on my 55" LED TV using Blu-ray. So I will still complain about poor CGI choices but the live action stuff looks great!
team made and I still hold those views. However, the cleanup job that the team did on the live action footage was completely amazing IMO. I own TOS on VHS, DVD and Blu-ray and never has the live action stuff looked as good as it does on my 55" LED TV using Blu-ray. So I will still complain about poor CGI choices but the live action stuff looks great!
New Jersey: Philadelphia's greater metropolitan area.
It was replaced by repeats of Saved by the Bell.
Anecdotal, hardly conclusive, yet I would fully agree with this observation.
So would I, only to add that it pulled in such poor ratings that it was eventually booted form its hardly enviable Sunday morning slot to languish in the wee smalls before disappearing.
They had high hopes for it but I doubt they panned out.
Actually, TOS-R had ratings almost equal to Enterprise for awhile...between 1.5-2...for a show over 40 yrs old!! Before that TOS had disappeared from TV. The DVD BD sets have done very well.
Seems like an equation to me...shows viable for remastering+shows popular enough+shows deemed ripe for investment...some shows have been remastered...but are any others doing new FX? Its huge investment of time and money...the fact that TOS is viable on these levels should make the old fans proud...CBS wants to preserve them for the future formats. If they don't realize it, shame on them. But no, they'd rather live in the low res, traveling matte world of their childhood. Time to grow up people.
RAMA
You do realize the played the WHOLE series first..not only that but it pretty much went off the air as the HD-DVD sets were selling well. I doubt there was much of a plan to keep TOS-R on the air after the whole series aired. Also does it mattered WHEN it was aired? If that's the case we can discount almsot all of TOS' syndication time. Not really an argument there.
Since i receive both NY and PHILA stations, TOS-R was being aired on 3 different channels, and two of them aired it in the late morning...first Sunday then one started on Saturday!
Its simple...there was no TOS in syndication, then there was...
Actually in a technical sense TOS-R simply IS better than TOS...there really is no denying it..it has a cleaned up picture, it's more colorful, it's higher resolution, and now the FX are capable of being shown at the same res..which is the real reason they were done..not to play around with a classic series.
TOS-R was getting better ratings than TOS on TVLand.
I agree with many other things you have to say though.
RAMA
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LOL, umm.... no. Not on MY TV anyway. But then it's just a 720p showing standard DVD. I already see where Spock's ears were applied. I'd never watch it on a 1080 in Blu-Ray, so I'k kinda blessed by the lack of resolution, I conjure.
When I watch the new effects on my 26" 720p LCD basement TV, I think they look pretty good.
However, when I watch them on my 42" 768p plasma TV, I can see the cartoonish textures. I'm sure those with even bigger 1080p displays notice it even more easily.
Let me say again - I like the composition of the shots, just not the CGI "look."
Doug
Considering the ENT series from 2001-2005 was done by Eden FX I am hoping the 1080p visual effects on the future Blu-ray release is going to look really awesome since they were created initially in HD and NOT by CBS Digital folks. Some of what I already saw on the ENT DVDs looked amazing.
Yes, but one point that is made, and I think it valid, is that the cleanup has revealed things not easily noticed in a lower resolution. The lower quality image and signal loss of the day was expected and used by producers to fudge some effects, hide whatever joins and seams effects and makeup might have. They watched the dailies on film, the most clear medium available (clearer than the current Blu-Ray prints), so they knew what was being hidden. But now you will see threadbare uniforms, the paint on a communicator that's supposed to be a metal strip, a fake tricorder (again more painted patterns instead of the moving parts), Shatner's toupee line, the thickness of the pancake makeup, and so on. I agree, the higher resolution makes the effects look worse than before, but it does the same to everything else. Every little flaw which could be hidden or ignored is now more obvious. After a while, I found myself looking for the telltale illusion breakers.
I grew up on Star Trek, all through the 70's in syndication, 38 years of viewing. The effects always looked the way they did and I've been more than used to them since I was 5. So, honestly, the fact that they look cruddier in HD isn't as bothersome to me. SFX technology becomes outdated sometimes months after they've been rendered. I've always seen the travelling mattes, bleeding lines and translucent models, but they were the norm for the TV industry when I first saw them, so I've never objected even so many years later. It's the other live action stuff exposed to the unforgiving light of day by Super Duper resolution that pulls the curtain too far back for me.
The original DVD prints were as good as they could get without showing all of the seams. The new Blu-Ray prints take it a step too far. This will be the case with any show of like vintage. The original Battlestar Galactica DVDs, which were scrubbed and polished for HD, took a huge hit. Now the support rod below the Galactica is screamingly obvious, as are the wires holding up the actors in a space walk scene. When I can see strings and packed makeup, then I feel it's gone too far. We were never meant to see it this clearly.
This is why I choose to sometimes watch the older laserdisc prints. They hide a multitude of sins and there's still plenty of clarity, which was just fine and dandy for everyone back in 1986. Granted, they look like crap on the 52 inch HDTV, but on my tube set in the den, they look great. So, yes, I am watching an inferior quality print with primitive effects, but my overall enjoyment is elevated by not having all of the seams revealed. When a magician levatates his assistant, I don't want to see the forklift doing the work. I know it's a trick, but I'm watching it because I WANT to be tricked.
What also brings me out of it in regards to the new FX is that I know what they were capable of back in 1966. Whenever I see a new effect, it jumps out as something 40 years more advanced than the rest of the show. Sometimes, when they recreate a shot almost exactly, I don't notice it much. But when they do a pan around the ship, I know one side couldn't be shown because of the electrical wiring. So my brain says "well, that shot couldn't be done then" and suddenly I'm watching an effect instead of enjoying the story.
None of this makes me an intractable purist. I have no objection to the new prints and effects. I do watch them. But I also enjoy seeing the show with the same eyes as I always have. Part of that is nostalgia, but it's mostly retaining the illusion.
Sorry this is so long and rambling, but there ya go.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
^^ Best post in this thread SS...good job
Rob
Rob
exactly what this thread RobertScorpio started that deals with regarding the Trek TOS movies
HIDEF..too good?
and the quality now visible (even though only STII:TWOK has had a proper remastering).
RobertScorpio
Pariah
I am amazed at how some of you really know your "remastered" stuff. One thing I like about all of the remasters, movies-tv episodes, is that I am slightly colored blind. For whatever reason my eyes see color, but not as vibrant as others. When I first saw the remastered cut of Khan, I gasped, really I did. I saw the richness in those uniforms, and the 'blue' monitors on the bridge in the background and was really floored at how good it was...
Even TOS-R are really more colorful. I know we can 'see' things we are not supposed to see, but I really enjoy it for the color. And for that reason alone, not the new FX, I like them..the color.
Rob
Even TOS-R are really more colorful. I know we can 'see' things we are not supposed to see, but I really enjoy it for the color. And for that reason alone, not the new FX, I like them..the color.
Rob
You'd hear people complain about TOS-R even if they'd taken the original model and reshot the scenes in front of a bluescreen instead of recreating them digitally.
Fundamentalists have issues...
This kind of criticism makes me sick because it clearly shows you understand absolutely NOTHING about what we're criticizing.
We don't embrace what you approve of and so we're deficient in some way. Similar threads
