Is Voyager Heavily Underrated?

[Bad Thoughts]

Well it was a very bad idea. In every government except a military dictatorship, the military answer to the civilian goverment. As soon as it was clear that the journey would last for many years more than the mission given to Janeway. A civilian governement should have been elected and all great decisions, liek how to ration food, what route to take, whether to traverse borg space or not... what penalty to give to a murderer or wheter to kill Tuvix or not should have been done by the governement, IE a trial by Jury for the Murderer for example. Janeway was out of line in pretty much everything she's done since the two crews decided to work together.

Yes, there were moments that made Janeway seem tyrannical . I particularly felt Janeway looked small in the second part of Scorpion. She ended up commanding rather than leading, using her rank more than her abilities. That tends to be one of those ways that television distorts reality. After all, weren't there episodes of TOS where Kirk had to insist he was the captain?

 

[Refuge]

I'm not sure of the extent of the reaction against Janeway. I believe it came before the pilot aired. Regardless, Jeri Taylor says they felt they had to make her appear more in command, perhaps to stifle the notion only men could lead.

Janeway did incorporate... (tip-toeing into a minefield here)... a 'mother' bear tone to being a Captain. She had the ability to take a crew that they were hunting and give them instant rank on Voyager. She needed them but at no stage did she treat the Maquis as lesser officers and crew despite their past or different badges. If she had a stick up her bum and was a military nutter she wouldn't have been able to live as harmoniously with every one and yet still do her job and Captain the ship. I think she tried and in the Good Shepherd we saw her show it was a concern of hers to see her crew as more than rank she ruled over. To be honest I think being female for the journey Voyager did was a positive.

 

[HugeLobes]

Always felt Janeway was a little too perfect. When she acted like a tyrant, the script made sure it turned out to be the exact right thing to do.

 

[RassDavadCaras]

Janeway did too, she answered to the laws and the regulations she was trained to respect. While she did negate some of those laws, so did Picard and so did Kirk and Sisko. She operated the way she was trained to, your issues should be with the Federations training and regulations, any other captain would have done very similar things. I think what everyone forgets is when she was acting like a Tyrant to for example Chakotai in the second episode, they had just ended being rivals and were starting to learn to work together. There are valid reasons for everything she did, and most other captains we love would have done similar acts. IT is more an issue with the writing and the way the Federation is portrayed than being just Janeway's fault.

 

[Refuge]

Yes, there were moments that made Janeway seem tyrannical . I particularly felt Janeway looked small in the second part of Scorpion. She ended up commanding rather than leading, using her rank more than her abilities. That tends to be one of those ways that television distorts reality. After all, weren't there episodes of TOS where Kirk had to insist he was the captain?

I'm getting confused. Is Janeway wrong for being a tyrant or wrong for not being Captain enough

 

[RassDavadCaras]

Really it comes down to the writers not knowing how to stay true to what the Federation should be, and not knowing exactly how to show someone leading without also coming off a bit like a tyrant. They really tried to express her command which is why she comes off arrogant and tyrannical at times, however, the situation does call for it, and most captains we have seen do similar acts. So it fits in the universe, and the issues come more from what we all would want in a show, and want the federation to really be, than what those things really are.

 

[Discofan]

Always felt Janeway was a little too perfect. When she acted like a tyrant, the script made sure it turned out to be the exact right thing to do.

When Janeway decided to traverse Borg space it was suicide and in fact she said so herself, without Kes' push it would have taken them ten years to get beyond Borg space. There's no way she would have been able to keep the Borg at bay for so long. Not to mention that for ten years there would have been no planets to get supplies from!!! Janeway's decision was B. A. D. bad!!! she was doomed to fail and without Kes' unforseable help, she would have.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I'm getting confused. Is Janeway wrong for being a tyrant or wrong for not being Captain enough

What I am saying is that the needs of television drama in the 1990s distorted who she was as a leader.

 

[Discofan]

I'm getting confused. Is Janeway wrong for being a tyrant or wrong for not being Captain enough

You realize that you're arguing with different people, don't you?

 

[Refuge]

Really it comes down to the writers not knowing how to stay true to what the Federation should be, and not knowing exactly how to show someone leading without also coming off a bit like a tyrant. They really tried to express her command which is why she comes off arrogant and tyrannical at times, however, the situation does call for it, and most captains we have seen do similar acts. So it fits in the universe, and the issues come more from what we all would want in a show, and want the federation to really be, than what those things really are.

End of the day it's Starfleet. They have rank and the Captain's word is the final one. They all know that. Been that way since TOS.

 

[Refuge]

What I am saying is that the needs of television drama in the 1990s distorted who she was as a leader.

That's kind of an interesting twist really, in that if those were the needs of the 1990s how it appeals to current day viewers

 

[Bad Thoughts]

That's kind of an interesting twist really, in that if those were the needs of the 1990s how it appeals to current day viewers

Arguably , there have been better representations of military leadership since 9-11, though only marginally better.

 

[Refuge]

Arguably , there have been better representations of military leadership since 9-11, though only marginally better.

The context makes such a big difference in my opinion. Like TOS was an exploratory mission, so the leadership of say a Kirk, took that tone. The star ship Enterprise was meeting and greeting a new alien almost every episode. You put your best Federation hat on. Yes I know there were episodes where it was not all sweetness and light. It's just as a Captain, Kirk was assigned to explore strange new worlds and he had Starfleet and Federation support and with that, they also watched him.

Discovery is in a time of war, so its captains are definitely part of an aggressive military operation. They work in with the rest of Starfleet and evoke times of war protocol.

Voyager was mostly on her own. It was a setting for a journey and survival. A Captain would have to adjust to that.

As for portrayals of military leadership now, I guess Discovery is the latest one.

 

[RassDavadCaras]

Survival is most of all what I think of when it comes to Voyager, in the real world people use scary situations to take control, yet if you are in a starship thousands of years from home, that is not a situation created to take power. That is a daunting task that someone courageously assumes, out of love for everyone aboard. If her intent was anything else, there were a lot of choices she would have made. She always proved that her goal was always the survival of her crew first, she was willing to die for them and proved just how committed to leading them home she was. Really her entire career is defined by her commitment to save the crew. If she has a chip on her shoulder, it is the effect of the situation. If you're looking for a true dictator, that would be Micheal Burnham who was not even a captain but constantly tried to take full control. I like her, but if you're going to rag on Voyager and claim it is a military dictatorship, lets really look at the facts here. Janeway's one goal was to protect her crew, Burnham was motivated by that goal, but she was out more for revenge for a great deal of the first season, her choices were made more based on hate than love. Can the same really be said for Janeway?

 

[Hey Missy]

"Janeway was a dictator" is a classic Trek stereotype up there with "Kirk is a maverick", "Picard is a pacifist", and "Sisko is insane".

 

[HugeLobes]

"Janeway was a dictator" is a classic Trek stereotype up there with "Kirk is a maverick", "Picard is a pacifist", and "Sisko is insane".

Yeah, except their shows actually stuck to those ideas (TNG movies and Picard is another story).

Janeway gets all dictatorial, but the writing never actually seems to address this.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

This seems a propos: https://www.businessinsider.com/lea...n-from-star-trek-2016-7#the-coaching-leader-2

 

[Refuge]

"Janeway was a dictator" is a classic Trek stereotype up there with "Kirk is a maverick", "Picard is a pacifist", and "Sisko is insane".

Sisko is insane is the one that undermines his journey in many ways. At least with being dictatorial or a maverick the projection is to their style but insanity is a bit of an insult.

 

[Refuge]

If you're looking for a true dictator, that would be Micheal Burnham who was not even a captain but constantly tried to take full control. I like her, but if you're going to rag on Voyager and claim it is a military dictatorship, lets really look at the facts here. Janeway's one goal was to protect her crew, Burnham was motivated by that goal, but she was out more for revenge for a great deal of the first season, her choices were made more based on hate than love. Can the same really be said for Janeway?

The wonderful Federation and Starfleet are appalling in Discovery in terms of values. They were sanctioning genocide and honestly the way Burnham and the Federation went with the idea to give L'Rell the detonator to a weapon of mass destruction as a means to end a war - says a lot for its ideals.

 

[RassDavadCaras]

Which given the shows place in the timeline, as bad as elements of it could be, kind of help shows like Voyager, if that type of leadership is trained and respected in the Fleet, it does not make Janeway's actions any more irresponsible or tyrannical than anyone else really. I also felt it was more of everyone being unsure and thrown into the deep end, than Janeway wishing or even being any kind of tyrant, your intent is what makes you a tyrant if you truly are working with everyone, but standing up when you think you know best, that is part of being a good leader and the crew respected her for it. Funny how a thread about Voyager suddenly became more about Janeway and her methods lol. This is a pretty fun board. A little heated with passion but respectful as it should be Live long and prosper.