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Is Toxic "Star Wars" Fandom Imploding?

Is Toxic "Star Wars" Fandom Imploding?

  • Total voters
    64
starsuperion said:
No worries. But no. If people know me, I generally am open minded and not condescending or sexist. But I can't control how someone perceives a comment. In truth, its very hard to get context without actually speaking with someone. The visual ques and body language help us determine tone in conversation. I wonder how many crazy arguments on here have developed from perceived slights, or simple miscommunication. Anyhow, none of my posts are dead serious, I mean this is escapism and supposed to be fun. Whether bitching about the series, the ships, and art, or praising it. We should definitely as fans take ourselves less seriously. I mean, we are all United in the love of a series or subject. We may disagree, but we all became fans for a reason.
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I agree, but with a proviso. No matter how much fun we draw from the site and fandom they doesn't exist in a bubble. Things have become politically loaded within sci fi and we're never going to avoid there being a political element to interpretations of the work onscreen. Trek was always thus deliberately and SW arguably has always been primed for being seen in such a light.

As for the comment, Neroon has acted in an official capacity and clearly Possum has let it slide so there's really not much for me to add. That being said as a gentle suggestion I've a very dry sense of humour at the best of times and know what it's like for that sometimes to get misinterpreted (particularly by Americans I've noticed) but there are levels of familiarity which I only use with certain people in here, primarily ones I know IRL, away from the boards or at least in pm.
 
jaime said:
Not quite. Yoda’s Ghost is still hanging around twenty odd years later, and can do things. Obi Wan just ahe chats for five years or so, and he had to build up to that.
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So, that can never be expanded upon? Because, again I'll reiterate, this was part of Lucas' conceptions as well.
 
fireproof78 said:
So, that can never be expanded upon? Because, again I'll reiterate, this was part of Lucas' conceptions as well.
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And if Lucas had made his version, with the same decisions, I would have made the same criticism.
On the plus side, even if mistakes are made, it’s usually better if it’s the same chap or chappess seeing these things through.
 
jaime said:
And if Lucas had made his version, with the same decisions, I would have made the same criticism.
On the plus side, even if mistakes are made, it’s usually better if it’s the same chap or chappess seeing these things through.
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Agree to disagree then. I have no problem with expansion on the Force Ghost lore.
 
fireproof78 said:
Agree to disagree then. I have no problem with expansion on the Force Ghost lore.
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It actually needs proper expansion. The sudden non-appearance Of Qui Gon at the end of RoTS was clumsy as heck, so having a character sit and explain it a bit might have helped. Then you can get away with Yoda and anyone you like really. But there’s no explanation of who Yoda is, so it’s a good thing these aren’t being made with new young audiences in mind..
 
jaime said:
It actually needs proper expansion. The sudden non-appearance Of Qui Gon at the end of RoTS was clumsy as heck, so having a character sit and explain it a bit might have helped. Then you can get away with Yoda and anyone you like really. But there’s no explanation of who Yoda is, so it’s a good thing these aren’t being made with new young audiences in mind..
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Someday we'll find out about Yoda and his species ;)

And, I agree, it does need proper expansion. That's why I'm open to this concept showing up. Regardless of what has been come to be accepted as part of Star Wars lore, we really don't know that much about Force Ghosts. Really, if you follow the Episodes in sequential order the Force Ghosts pop up with no explanation, since not all Jedi vanish when they die. So, as much as I agree that Yoda's appearance is needing an explanation I don't see it as an issue, yet.
 
fireproof78 said:
Someday we'll find out about Yoda and his species ;)

And, I agree, it does need proper expansion. That's why I'm open to this concept showing up. Regardless of what has been come to be accepted as part of Star Wars lore, we really don't know that much about Force Ghosts. Really, if you follow the Episodes in sequential order the Force Ghosts pop up with no explanation, since not all Jedi vanish when they die. So, as much as I agree that Yoda's appearance is needing an explanation I don't see it as an issue, yet.
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It’s one of those areas where they rely on it being known by the audience. A sort of complacency.
Maybe they are gonna go full dune and everyone is coming back as force ghola
 
jaime said:
It’s one of those areas where they rely on it being known by the audience. A sort of complacency.
Maybe they are gonna go full dune and everyone is coming back as force ghola
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Or X-men and Jedi can transfer their consciousness to another person.
 
jaime said:
It actually needs proper expansion. The sudden non-appearance Of Qui Gon at the end of RoTS was clumsy as heck, so having a character sit and explain it a bit might have helped. Then you can get away with Yoda and anyone you like really. But there’s no explanation of who Yoda is, so it’s a good thing these aren’t being made with new young audiences in mind..
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You picked the wrong series to follow because Star Wars doesn't explain anything except in the most vague terms since it's mostly about the adventure story and the characters, the rest to just seasoning. Why some Jedi are able to become Force Ghosts is ultimately unimportant to the story being told. I think Clone Wars goes into it towards the end, but I don't recall the details. The series isn't really about how Force Ghosts work, so it doesn't really matter. It's just an excuse to bring in a mentor to deliver expository dialogue, but look visually interesting.

Plus everyone knows who Yoda is. Star Wars is baked into our culture. My five year old nephew knows who Yoda is and knows that he's a Jedi Master. That's really all that matters when it comes to his character.
 
Awesome Possum said:
You picked the wrong series to follow because Star Wars doesn't explain anything except in the most vague terms since it's mostly about the adventure story and the characters, the rest to just seasoning. Why some Jedi are able to become Force Ghosts is ultimately unimportant to the story being told. I think Clone Wars goes into it towards the end, but I don't recall the details. The series isn't really about how Force Ghosts work, so it doesn't really matter. It's just an excuse to bring in a mentor to deliver expository dialogue, but look visually interesting.

Plus everyone knows who Yoda is. Star Wars is baked into our culture. My five year old nephew knows who Yoda is and knows that he's a Jedi Master. That's really all that matters when it comes to his character.
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Well, I shall be sure to travel back in time and forewarn my childhood self not to pay any attention to the most popular and beloved thing for his age group at the time. That will save me a lot of bother. I’ll tip him off about getting too attached to ghostbusters while he’s at it, and tell him the good news is in the future everyone likes Doctor Who, but there’s a tough time ahead.

Yes.
Of course that’s what Force ghosts are for.
Except really that’s what the one force ghost was for.
Now they are for nostalgia, and apparently make excellent fire starters for deforestation campaigns.
Basically, the more you lean into a concept, the more you have to discuss what that concept is. At this point it’s no longer ‘mentor hangs on like Hamlets dad’ and it could stand a little clarification. We know it’s a thing unique to the Jedi / light side of the force. We know it was lost knowledge and Jin is the first to come back from the other side as it were...largely thanks to a quick bit of dialogue and no Liam neeson. Since then it’s been hammered in extended media, but not on screen till guest muppet showed up.

It always amuses me when the response is ‘oh, this thing that’s been something to since childhood? It’s not for you’ is a sort of riposte for things.
 
jaime said:
Well, I shall be sure to travel back in time and forewarn my childhood self not to pay any attention to the most popular and beloved thing for his age group at the time. That will save me a lot of bother. I’ll tip him off about getting too attached to ghostbusters while he’s at it, and tell him the good news is in the future everyone likes Doctor Who, but there’s a tough time ahead.

Yes.
Of course that’s what Force ghosts are for.
Except really that’s what the one force ghost was for.
Now they are for nostalgia, and apparently make excellent fire starters for deforestation campaigns.
Basically, the more you lean into a concept, the more you have to discuss what that concept is. At this point it’s no longer ‘mentor hangs on like Hamlets dad’ and it could stand a little clarification. We know it’s a thing unique to the Jedi / light side of the force. We know it was lost knowledge and Jin is the first to come back from the other side as it were...largely thanks to a quick bit of dialogue and no Liam neeson. Since then it’s been hammered in extended media, but not on screen till guest muppet showed up.

It always amuses me when the response is ‘oh, this thing that’s been something to since childhood? It’s not for you’ is a sort of riposte for things.
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I don't understand complaining about new films in a long franchise doing the exact same thing as the older ones and never questioning it before. It's like if there was a new ET and people got upset that they don't explain how ET's magic healing finger works.
 
Spot261 said:
This pretty much sums it up.
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Because they also usually come with ‘it’s for new audiences’ somewhere in the baggage, or they stretch something to breaking point. Nine or so movies in, when the Falcons had its accent explained on screen, you would think a little clarification for Raiden the Green could be fit in :p

I am fine with not everything needing explaining, but it varies franchise to franchise. To give you an example that use vagueness very well, I also love both Blade Runner films. But SW is something With different aims. Sells more action figures.
 
Maybe that's why TLJ has been a disappointment for some? That it tried to emulate something that set the tone and was *first* and was fresh to the saga. To a lesser degree Force Awakens copied Star Wars (Hope) - it was also a starting point and upward in its direction. Then we have TLJ that one would not compare to Empire with a straight face.
 
Refuge said:
Maybe that's why TLJ has been a disappointment for some? That it tried to emulate something that set the tone and was *first* and was fresh to the saga. To a lesser degree Force Awakens copied Star Wars (Hope) - it was also a starting point and upward in its direction. Then we have TLJ that one would not compare to Empire with a straight face.
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It's why I liked TLJ so much. It wasn't trying to be the same Star Wars movie over and over. I was actually surprised at a blockbuster, rather than, "Ooo, cool, I saw exactly what I want to see!"
 
Indeed the differences. I like to see what I want to see and what gives me satisfaction. I don't enjoy disappointment.
 
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