Is TOS really part of Trek Canon?

[Robert D. Robot]

The problem is the suggestion that everything in Star Trek "happened" exactly as we saw it on television.

Who actually believes computer screens will de-evolve to the point where they can only display coloured squares that blink on and off in 250 years? Or that women won't be starship captains in the 2260's, when they can in the 2150's and the 2280's? Or that the Gorn really looks like a guy in a suit?

It's the silly notion that everything is to be taken literally that causes the problems. The minute people get a reality check (it's a fucking TV show!) and realize that we're seeing the pretend future through the eyes of whatever era the various shows and films are made in you realize it's all meant to be taken with a pinch of salt and enjoyed for what it is. Nothing needs "fixing" or "de-canonizing" and all the "X looks too advanced compared to Y", or "A looks too outdated next to B" arguments are utterly worthless.

Well said.

When you think about it all being an 'interpretation' it's true, because if it wasn't, how could Kirk, Spock, McCoy and even Picard, Janeway etc. just all happen to resemble 20th/21st century actors?!?!?
I'm only half joking when I put it that way. That's why , as you said, the displays etc. are not exactly the way they'd really look.

^ Excellent post, KingDaniel! Good points, Nardpuncher! While I have always loved all the minutia and attention to detail (in general) in all of Trek, I do cut the people who produce the show (and movies) some "real world slack" when it comes to creating new on-screen Trek where there has to be a balance struck between what came before and what audiences expect to see now in more recent productions. I think it a shame that some people let these things get in the way of enjoying more of Trek....

 

[Ghrakh]

Canon matters?

 

[Dale]

I dislike and completely disregard TOS... ...I mean, sorry, but it's just... ...cheap! It was a flop! Cancelled after only 3 seasons, it did worse than ENT. It only gained all the hype through the movies.

You don't know your history, son. It was the decade-long groundswell of popular support for that cancelled TV series that led to everything else.

It even changed the way viewership and ratings are computed... because the method in use when the series was cancelled gave the false impression that no one liked Star Trek.

And it shall ever be canon. Even your beloved 2009 movie hinges on the canon established in TOS. Remember which Spock it was who traveled back through time.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Damn right!

 

[Nardpuncher]

Also, it's silly to think that people defending TOS are the fuddy duddy old fogeys.
We're not the ones closing our minds to something and saying it should be stricken down. That sounds like something a closed-minded person would call for.

 

[JarodRussell]

Come to think of it, most Trek Nerdgeeks I've seen were wearing TNG and VOY uniforms... hm...

 

[Sector 7]

The show is so old and out of date now that it seems like it would just be easier to leave it out.

... ... ... ... ...

I didn't say a word.

I wholeheartedly agree with every word you didn't say.

TOS was crap and the other shows were miles better, they are what I base my defination of Trek on, which is why for me, TOS isn't Trek.

Perspective. From where I stand TOS helped define how to do SF adventure/drama on television. It certainly was not and is not crap. From the perspective of many a lot of what followed in TOS' name was and is crap.

Star Trek TOS challenged many accepted sci-fi conventions. It's successors have done little to none of that. Some things may seem cliche now because we've seen them done to death, but back in the day they weren't cliches yet because TOS was doing them for the first time.

And many of the things that contemporary Trek has brought to the franchise I and others could happily do without.

I'm frightened... I find myself in agreement with Warped9. Que theme from The Twilight Zone (no that is not the crappy vampire/werewolf thing).

The problem is the suggestion that everything in Star Trek "happened" exactly as we saw it on television.

Who actually believes computer screens will de-evolve to the point where they can only display coloured squares that blink on and off in 250 years? Or that women won't be starship captains in the 2260's, when they can in the 2150's and the 2280's? Or that the Gorn really looks like a guy in a suit?

It's the silly notion that everything is to be taken literally that causes the problems. The minute people get a reality check (it's a fucking TV show!) and realize that we're seeing the pretend future through the eyes of whatever era the various shows and films are made in you realize it's all meant to be taken with a pinch of salt and enjoyed for what it is. Nothing needs "fixing" or "de-canonizing" and all the "X looks too advanced compared to Y", or "A looks too outdated next to B" arguments are utterly worthless.

Well said.

Come to think of it, most Trek Nerdgeeks I've seen were wearing TNG and VOY uniforms... hm...

+1

 

[George]

And it shall ever be canon. Even your beloved 2009 movie hinges on the canon established in TOS. Remember which Spock it was who traveled back through time.

Beloved? Beloved?!?! I absolutely hate that movie, I couldn't despise it more. It is the incarnation of stupidity and disrespect for the accomplishments of Messrs Roddenberry and Berman!

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Don't the newer versions of Dr. Who tend to overlook the specifics of what came before while maintaining the general ideas or mythos of what was done previously?

Doctor Who, from what I understand, stepped over it's own canonicity even during the 'classic' years. (In regards to the Daleks, and the Cybermen, and the Doctor's age...)

nuWho does pretty well with acknowledging the previous stuff...and even the television movie that wasn't well regarded...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

XI made more total dollars but Mall Cop was a better investment. For the same $150 million you'd make 5.7 Mall Cops with a total gross of $1,055,000,000.

Which is why the studio rushed to greenlight five sequels to Mall Cop.


No?

Don't send your resume into the studio just yet.

 

[Nardpuncher]

And it shall ever be canon. Even your beloved 2009 movie hinges on the canon established in TOS. Remember which Spock it was who traveled back through time.

Beloved? Beloved?!?! I absolutely hate that movie, I couldn't despise it more. It is the incarnation of stupidity and disrespect for the accomplishments of Messrs Roddenberry and Berman!

So I'm assuming you're a big TNG fan?
Because if you are , and are trying to mock TOS in comparison to TNG then you're about 15 years late.

 

[Sector 7]

And it shall ever be canon. Even your beloved 2009 movie hinges on the canon established in TOS. Remember which Spock it was who traveled back through time.

Beloved? Beloved?!?! I absolutely hate that movie, I couldn't despise it more. It is the incarnation of stupidity and disrespect for the accomplishments of Messrs Roddenberry and Berman!

So I'm assuming you're a big TNG fan?
Because if you are , and are trying to mock TOS in comparison to TNG then you're about 15 years late.

The short bus/shuttlecraft always arrives late.I may not know what George IS a fan of, but I have not seen any which do not blast TOS or ST09. Can you spell troll?

 

[Nardpuncher]

^^ Dear God maybe it's Voyager.

 

[number6]

Let's not forget there's a whole generation of Trek fans who grew up on TNG. TOS doesn't have the same visceral feeling for them as it does for us.

GR even mused that one day fans will talk about how the next incarnation will overshadow "that old show."


I certainly think that TOS is canon, but I understand the point of view, even though the OP was some kind of attempt at social satire.

 

[FordSVT]

If people want to have a "personal continuity" in their little brains that excludes certain TV episodes or includes books or games, or anything else, that's fine, and it doesn't hurt anyone. Now you can't debate others coming from that perspective, but if it makes you feel better while you watch it, c'est la vie.

Canon, however, is determined by Paramount and is what people writing TV and movies have to pay attention to as much as possible when creating new material. Canon is something we simply do not get to choose. JJ Abrams has skirted this to a large degree by creating a parallel universe which will allow greater freedom for story-telling, but that doesn't mean the original material has disappeared.

People really need to stop using the term "personal canon", because it really doesn't make sense and shows a lack of understanding about what the word means.

 

[Sector 7]

People really need to stop using the term "personal canon", because it really doesn't make sense and shows a lack of understanding about what the word means.

I took my personal canon to work one day. Unfortunately, it took out 2 cubicles and a wall. Moral of this story: Personal canon should not be displayed in public.

 

[YARN]

People really need to stop using the term "personal canon", because it really doesn't make sense and shows a lack of understanding about what the word means.

I took my personal canon to work one day. Unfortunately, it took out 2 cubicles and a wall. Moral of this story: Personal canon should not be displayed in public.

We fans are Star Trek. Without us it has no life. It belongs, like all literature, to everyone and yet no one in particular, not even it's creators or "owners." The fans are the ones who brought Star Trek back from the grave.

Consequently, we can collectively decide to exclude TOS from the canon if we so wish. There is no personal canon, but there is collective canon! Canon is decided by culture, in particular, by the ruling elites who direct culture. Trekkies are the ruling elite of Star Trek - we say what goes. If what you say is well-taken by our ruling Trek elite on this most important of internet Trek BBoards, then your voice can, indeed, change the conversation, change canon.

Yes, this is all complete bullocks, but my point is... ...OK, there is no point. Sorry.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

People really need to stop using the term "personal canon", because it really doesn't make sense and shows a lack of understanding about what the word means.

I took my personal canon to work one day. Unfortunately, it took out 2 cubicles and a wall. Moral of this story: Personal canon should not be displayed in public.

We fans are Star Trek. Without us it has no life. It belongs, like all literature, to everyone and yet no one in particular, not even it's creators or "owners." The fans are the ones who brought Star Trek back from the grave.

Consequently, we can collectively decide to exclude TOS from the canon if we so wish. There is no personal canon, but there is collective canon! Canon is decided by culture, in particular, by the ruling elites who direct culture. Trekkies are the ruling elite of Star Trek - we say what goes. If what you say is well-taken by our ruling Trek elite on this most important of internet Trek BBoards, then your voice can, indeed, change the conversation, change canon.

Yes, this is all complete bullocks, but my point is... ...OK, there is no point. Sorry.

"Kiteo, his eyes closed!"

 

[Nardpuncher]

People really need to stop using the term "personal canon", because it really doesn't make sense and shows a lack of understanding about what the word means.

I took my personal canon to work one day. Unfortunately, it took out 2 cubicles and a wall. Moral of this story: Personal canon should not be displayed in public.

We fans are Star Trek. Without us it has no life. It belongs, like all literature, to everyone and yet no one in particular, not even it's creators or "owners." The fans are the ones who brought Star Trek back from the grave.

Consequently, we can collectively decide to exclude TOS from the canon if we so wish. There is no personal canon, but there is collective canon! Canon is decided by culture, in particular, by the ruling elites who direct culture. Trekkies are the ruling elite of Star Trek - we say what goes. If what you say is well-taken by our ruling Trek elite on this most important of internet Trek BBoards, then your voice can, indeed, change the conversation, change canon.

Yes, this is all complete bullocks, but my point is... ...OK, there is no point. Sorry.

Sorry but Trek fans make up a small percentage of the Star Trek viewing public. If the franchise relied only on fans it would've died many years ago.
And how can all of us coming together, even if we wanted to, make TOS somehow become non-canon?

 

[George]

Sorry but Trek fans make up a small percentage of the Star Trek viewing public. If the franchise relied only on fans it would've died many years ago.

From what universe are you? Trek fans are about the only people who watch it at all... ...unless you count that abomination of a movie in 2009.