Is TOS really part of Trek Canon?

[T'Girl]

But now we have a new ship in a new universe with new actors, so why not just say that the story starts with the last film? A fresh start.

Just take the additional small step of changing the names of the movie title, the ship and the characters ... poof, an actual fresh start.

or you could just retread off of others works

Bald Shinzon in big Romulan ship ... Bald Nero in big Romulan ship
Picard rams big Romulan ship ......George rams big Romulan ship
Luke Skywalker flys into trench ... nuKirk drive into gully
Real Kirk and Kobayashi Maru ... nuKirk and Kobayashi Maru
Real Kirk bites apple .................. nukirk bites apple
Real Kirk screw alien chick ........ nuKirk copies actions
Khan loses wife seeks revenge ... Nero loses wife seeks revenge
Ceti eels in ears .......................... Ceti eels in ear

But I'm sorry, you were talking about "FRESH."

 

[Silvercrest]

Gene shall haunt you in your sleep tonight for even posting such a thing..... and just in case.... I'll summon him right now


Yeeoouummmm gawa'yaddi ali'baba...... (repeats)

rumble rumble (lightning crackles!) rumble rumble

WHOOO DISTURBS MY REST?

rumble rumble (lightning crackles!) rumble rumble

LOOK, IF YOU CLOWNS ARE GOING TO CALL ME BACK FROM THE DEAD AND THEN NOT EVEN TALK TO ME, THEN I'LL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S HAPPENED TO STAR TREK WITHOUT YOU.

MAJEL! MAJEL! What? Oh, crap.

Okay, let's see. Next Generation ran a few years... good... Generations... what? Kirk died? HOW? And they didn't resurrect him? Priceline? What?

Moving on... Deep Space Nine... huh? It wasn't set on a ship? But it had Worf? Never mind, I don't want to know.

Okay then, moving on... Voyager? Other side of the galaxy? Now we're talking! Borg? Seven of what? She looked like what? YOWZA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enterprise? Temporal cold what? The Vulcans are all arrogant jerks? Who from Quantum Leap? Never mind, I don't want to know.

New movie? JJ who? The only JJ Abrams I ever heard of was the writer on "Regarding Henry."

Captain Kirk did what? Spock and Uhura? The engine room looks like what? Never mind, I don't want to know.

Just... never mind. And don't EVER CALL ME BACKFROM THE DEAD FOR THIS KIND OF @#$% AGAIN!!!!

rumble rumble (lightning crackles!) rumble rumble

 

[Starbreaker]

That's all. I don't even want to vent.

 

[YARN]

People have been saying it in earnest for years now.

For real?

 

[I am not Spock]

if anything's not canon, it's that fucking abomination of a movie from 2009.

Mall Cop??

Actually, Mall Cop was a more sucessful movie based on rate of return.

Mall Cop
$183,000,000 gross/26,000,000 budget = 7.04

Star Trek XI
$385,000,000 gross/150,000,000 budget = 2.57

XI made more total dollars but Mall Cop was a better investment. For the same $150 million you'd make 5.7 Mall Cops with a total gross of $1,055,000,000.

Well, there's no accounting for the general public's taste. You'd have to pay me to sit through Mall Cop.

 

[C.E. Evans]

People have been saying it in earnest for years now.

For real?

A lot of it came out when ENT debuted, but I can recall a few folks saying TOS should be removed from canon when TNG was on the air...

The problem with removing things from canon simply because they were made earlier is that it's a fate that befalls every production. So TNG should be next, followed by DS9, VOY, and ENT. Ultimately, Star Trek XI will be removed from canon when Star Trek XII is released.

The alternative of simply letting things be doesn't seem to be an option...

 

[YARN]

People have been saying it in earnest for years now.

For real?

A lot of it came out when ENT debuted, but I can recall a few folks saying TOS should be removed from canon when TNG was on the air...

The problem with removing things from canon simply because they were made earlier is that it's a fate that befalls every production. So TNG should be next, followed by DS9, VOY, and ENT. Ultimately, Star Trek XI will be removed from canon when Star Trek XII is released.

The alternative of simply letting things be doesn't seem to be an option...

No wonder the TOS purists are so touchy...

 

[scotpens]

ONLY Trek TOS and movies 1 through 6 are canon. Except for number 5, which I think of as Shatner's mushroom hallucination. Everything else is, well, something else. Not Star Trek.

I thus proclaim it, therefore it is so.

 

[Chris3123]

It only gained all the hype through the movies.

Incorrect. The show had a large fanbase years before the movies. In fact the first Star Trek convention was in 1972, 7 years before the first movie. They originally estimated an attendance of only a few hundred, but ended up having several thousand people show up over the 3-day span of the convention. That's hype.

TOS isn't really Trek

Being the original show, TOS defined what "Trek" is. So by definition, TOS is pure "Trek". That's just common sense.

its far too non-idealistic (especially with chauvinistic, aggressive Captain Rambo Tiberius Kirk) and has as much science and logic in it as George W. Bush's brain.

That also carried into some of the movie. I mean, that ring shaped barrier at the galactic core - it's complete unrealistic and unscientific nonsense, especially because, if it would really exist, it should be in spherical form like the core itself. Oh, and what's up with a planet at the center of the Galaxy? Anyone ever heard of gravitational pull? Neutrino mass? No? Then don't write science fiction.

It's fine to have such opinions and criticisms. But those opinions don't change the simple fact that TOS is 100% Trek.

 

[RegFan]

I dislike TOS, but it's still canon for me. However, if one of the Trek series seems to be a part of a separate continuity, it's TOS, specifically because of the '60s gender roles and hairstyles.

 

[Warped9]

The show is so old and out of date now that it seems like it would just be easier to leave it out.

... ... ... ... ...

I didn't say a word.

 

[SPCTRE]

The simple straight answer is that everything in Trek is a variation based upon TOS, and TOS is the foundation of it. So if anything's "canon" TOS is.

None of which speaks to questions of consistency, internal contradictions or individual preference - those have squat to do with what's official continuity or "canon."

QFT

 

[George]

People have been saying it in earnest for years now.

For real?

Indeed, those people include me.

 

[George]

It only gained all the hype through the movies.

Incorrect. The show had a large fanbase years before the movies. In fact the first Star Trek convention was in 1972, 7 years before the first movie. They originally estimated an attendance of only a few hundred, but ended up having several thousand people show up over the 3-day span of the convention. That's hype.

TOS isn't really Trek

Being the original show, TOS defined what "Trek" is. So by definition, TOS is pure "Trek". That's just common sense.

Yes, but because TOS was crap and the other shows were miles better, they are what I base my defination of Trek on, which is why for me, TOS isn't Trek.

It's fine to have such opinions and criticisms. But those opinions don't change the simple fact that TOS is 100% Trek.

Depends who defines what Trek is, and since everyone can define that for themselves it isn't Trek for me.

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

 

[Avon]

canon star trek is any show or film with star trek in the name. even bad stuff that you don't like.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

Little Joey has his first ice cream. It is chocolate flavored, and he does not like it. Later, he tries strawberry ice cream, and he LOVES it. Little Joey also enjoys the neapolitan he tries. He gives butter pecan a try, and he thinks it is OK. But he does not like chocolate. As a matter of fact, when offered it, he loudly states that this is NOT ice cream. It can not be ice cream and he refuses to accept that it is ice cream.... and it seems like he REALLY believes chocolate flavored ice cream is not ice cream!

Is Little Joey just putting on that "cute" (slightly annoying), little-kid behavior meant to get some attention, or does Joey need to be taken to get some professional counseling to deal with his detachment from reality?

Because it is ALL ICE CREAM. It IS right there in the name.

(and no, there is no sherbet, no gelato in this story....)

I am relieved to hear comments from posters that indicate that they think some of these discussions seem as ridiculous to them as they seem to me.

If you don't like something, just say so. That is fine! Just don't be sayin' something isn't what it is. If you need assistance, some Zappa may help. Take only as directed....

 

[BillJ]

Little Joey is obviously a spoiled brat and will be a sociopath when he gets older.

It bothers me when someone calls Star Trek crap who obviously hasn't seen it.

For those who think Trek became popular with the films, you're way off base. The films were made because of how popular Trek became in strip syndication in the 70's.

 

[JarodRussell]

Haha, offended Trekkies trying to get personal again.

 

[Delta1]

Some of the early Christians tried to remove the Hebrew Torah from the canon. They felt that the vengeful YHWH of The Original Scriptures was inconsistent with later versions of God portrayed by Jesus. There were also clear continuity problems introduced when the henotheistic Hebrews became the monotheistic Jews. Most embarrassingly, all the moral parts of TOS had a backward, nomadic flavor that was kind of cheesy to the modern, cosmopolitan reader. It was easier, these early Christians claimed, to strike the offensive older material from the canon and stick with what was newer and more relevant.

All of these people were proclaimed heretics and tortured to death. The canon remained unaltered.

 

[YARN]

People have been saying it in earnest for years now.

For real?

Indeed, those people include me.

Well, I'm either behind the times or you're ahead of the curve. I thought you're position was another year or two down the road.

I thought this thread would be a cautionary tale (for TOS Canonistas) or a winking reductio ad absurdum for others who are annoyed by the politics of exclusion.