During TOS, I get the impression that the diplomatic corps is directly under the Federation, and not under Starfleet command.
Is Starfleet a military organization?
- Thread starter Commander Troi
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^ Why would diplomats work for Starfleet? 
Diplomacy is, by definition, a government job, and therefore falls under the Federation’s wheelhouse.
Starfleet, OTOH, is for exploration and defense. Diplomacy isn’t their job.
Diplomacy is, by definition, a government job, and therefore falls under the Federation’s wheelhouse.
Starfleet, OTOH, is for exploration and defense. Diplomacy isn’t their job.
Combat skills are relevant for any police, private security, border control, James Bond figure... XD
Yes, there was that Fox guy and the guy in the blue and silver uniform. But Picard was a diplomat, even though the 'real' ambassadors were not in SF. I guess we could say SF gradually became less and less of a military organization after the Romulan war (as explained in Beyond), while still being some kind of frontier police when required in TOS, and then "not a military" anymore in TNG. Uniforms, ranks, etc. also exist in firefighter units, right? But following naval tradition, they kept words like "court martial". It's not a clear yes or no, but the statements from the shows tilt the evidence towards the no side.
Indeed. The attitude seems to stem from a very strange view of the military that somehow automatically means "evil" and that our noble heroes would not be fussed with such operations. Except even in TNG when the Romulans send a battlecruiser along their side of the neutral zone Starfleet immediately orders the Enterprise-D to responds as "insurance." Well, what insurance is the Enterprise there to provide in the face of Romulan aggression, if that is the case? There are instances throughout where Starfleet is stepping in to that military role of defense, and offense and yet somehow that isn't its purpose?
I would say the answer is that Starfleet is as military as you get in the Federation. But are they equivalent to the modern US Armed Forces? No. Their duties are far beyond standard military areas of operation and their organization is far looser and less strict.
So if the Federation gets into a conflict that requires the military, then Starfleet fills that role. But they also fill the role of the Coast Guard, FBI, DEA, ATF, Parks Service, AAA, FEMA, exploration, first encounters, diplomacy, and anything else as the need arises. Roddenberry didn't want them to be too military. And they aren't very strict. A lot of the common forms are carried over in command structure, but you'd see the same thing on a cruise ship. Starfleet does not have a division between enlisted and officers. You can move up in rank. Or you can go to the Academy and jump to Ensign. But you won't see an officer's mess and enlisted mess. The newest crewman can eat at the same table as the captain.
So if the Federation gets into a conflict that requires the military, then Starfleet fills that role. But they also fill the role of the Coast Guard, FBI, DEA, ATF, Parks Service, AAA, FEMA, exploration, first encounters, diplomacy, and anything else as the need arises. Roddenberry didn't want them to be too military. And they aren't very strict. A lot of the common forms are carried over in command structure, but you'd see the same thing on a cruise ship. Starfleet does not have a division between enlisted and officers. You can move up in rank. Or you can go to the Academy and jump to Ensign. But you won't see an officer's mess and enlisted mess. The newest crewman can eat at the same table as the captain.
I think there is a ton of false equivalencies and assumptions that military=US Armed Forces. Starfleet isn't a direct 1 to 1 analog, and finding all the disparities is an exercise in futility since Starfleet fills the role of the plot more than anything else.
But, it does serve a military function and declaring to not be a military seems disingenuous at best.
But, it does serve a military function and declaring to not be a military seems disingenuous at best.
While the Federation has a separate diplomatic corps (or whatever it's called) with ambassadors, Starfleet ships are often the first point of diplomatic contact with the Federation for civilizations that are way out in the middle of nowhere on the final frontier. We have seen Starfleet captains doing diplomatic stuff in the absence of an ambassador. First contact with an alien species is really a diplomatic task, but Starfleet is the agency that often does this.
Kor
Kor
Why do we ever have this discussion? The joke I always pull out in these threads is "of course Starfleet isn't a military. It's an armed uniform service with rank structure, martial discipline and the responsibility of defending the Federation and fighting its wars. But not a military." People cling to the idea that Starfleet can't be a military despite the fact that it is always shown behaving as a military and doing military things all because Gene Said it's not a military. Apparently if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, but Gene Says it's a car, then It's a Car.
If anything, Starfleet tends to be a lot more strict than most modern day militaries. Starfleet officers are apparently required to stop and stand at attention in the presence of others, regardless of what's going on. Like in TNG Man of the People Riker walks in on a guy in the middle of getting dressed, who immediately snaps to attention. Or in Trek XI when officers on board the Kelvin stop their jobs in the middle of a battle to stand at attention as Captain Robau walks by them. That one is especially glaring, as I recall someone who actually served in the military trashing that scene since in reality, if you're in the middle of a battle, you do not stop what you're doing even if God Himself is walking by. Indeed, Star Trek so often overplays the militaristic rigidity of the Starfleet officers to the point that it makes the claim that Starfleet isn't military silly and ironic.
There is also the fact that salutes rarely exist in Star Trek, and there are far more examples, in the TNG era mostly, of junior officers in the corridors not reacting to the Captain or other senior officers. "Captain on the Bridge/Admiral on the Bridge" is mostly a movie thing and not generally followed through in every episode.
Anyway, the officer standing to attention for Riker was mostly a comical beat, but also something I can imagine happening in real life to a nervous young officer if the XO surprises him in somebody's quarters. Certainly, people getting dressed snap to attention during surprise inspections all the time in real life.
Which is itself meaningless. Salutes don't happen in the military as often as civilians think they do. Indeed, there is actually no saluting while indoors (unless for ceremonial purposes) or while in the field. Since the majority of Star Trek takes place in these two settings, there's not much opportunity to see salutes.
And... you know... major characters on screen...?
As I've said before...
Starfleet is Schrödinger's Military.
Starfleet is Schrödinger's Military.
That it has ranks and weapons doesn't necessarily make it a military, it does perform some key military functions but it also has some pretty key distinctions.
In particular, the military is, at least in liberal democracies, generally not supposed to engage in domestic law enforcement which Starfleet fairly often does.
Edit:
Some of our heroes have acted as if combat, engaging in war isn't what they signed up for or expected.
I don't see a lot of martial discipline in Starfleet, a lot of disobedience and insubordination is overlooked or forgiven.
The term "court martial" is used for Starfleet trials but the trials occur without the negative connotation that I do think the term now widely does have, that the defendant will definitely lose and be harshly punished.
In particular, the military is, at least in liberal democracies, generally not supposed to engage in domestic law enforcement which Starfleet fairly often does.
Edit:
Some of our heroes have acted as if combat, engaging in war isn't what they signed up for or expected.
I don't see a lot of martial discipline in Starfleet, a lot of disobedience and insubordination is overlooked or forgiven.
The term "court martial" is used for Starfleet trials but the trials occur without the negative connotation that I do think the term now widely does have, that the defendant will definitely lose and be harshly punished.
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Yes and no.
Even in the United States, which is the only nation AFAIK that actually has a rule about that, you have agencies like the Coast Guard who regularly engage in both law enforcement and military operations.
Military units that engage in a variety of MOOTW functions, particularly emergency services provision are not particularly unusual.
The reverse, where a de facto police unit carries out what are traditionally military roles is rarer in major countries, but not unheard of.
I will bite (again)
The UFP is a military semi dictatorship, its the only explanation for why they deny Starfleet's military role. After all they don't expect the Galactic Merchants Association to fight their wars they expect Starfleet, unless Starfleet personnel are really glorified mercenaries who wear bright coloured clothes?
The UFP is a military semi dictatorship, its the only explanation for why they deny Starfleet's military role. After all they don't expect the Galactic Merchants Association to fight their wars they expect Starfleet, unless Starfleet personnel are really glorified mercenaries who wear bright coloured clothes?
My prediction that this topic will be created again, proves I have psychic powersSUCKER!!
iMilitary?
gunboat diplomacy?^ Why would diplomats work for Starfleet?
Diplomacy is, by definition, a government job, and therefore falls under the Federation’s wheelhouse.
Starfleet, OTOH, is for exploration and defense. Diplomacy isn’t their job.
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